Please critique my kitchen design

[BoysRule]

We are having our house renovated and this will be the kitchen diner. It is quite long and thin so can't have an island. I have put a sort of butchers block in the middle as the space is quite large to be empty.

Does the dining area look to squashed and the kitchen too large? It's not actually that small in the dining area - the end wall is 2.7m and the side wall 2.45 which is about the size of our current dining room so it fits the table well. However, it does look small in proportion to the kitchen.

There are a lot of units in the kitchen so I'm not sure we need all of them. Do you think it would be better to move the peninsula along nearer to the sink and lose a cupboard there and then shuffle the dining room table along a bit.

Thoughts appreciated.

Personally I wouldn't have breakfast bar seating with the dining table quite so close, it just seems unneccessary to me.

The two doors on the bottom wall, are they both entrances to the room, or is one a cupboard/utility?

Lose the breakfast bar completely - you don't need one when your dining table is practically beside it. It will also open the room up so you aren't having to manoeuvre around breakfast bar/island. Move one of the large cupboards (fridge) over to the wall where the breakfast bar is and have extra worktops and lower cupboards where the fridge was. This will make that wall look less built up. The colour you have chosen is quite dark and it doesn't look right having so many large cupboards together - it's too blocky.

Speaking from experience of someone with a very similar layout of dining area and breakfast bar/units, LOSE THE BREAKFAST BAR.

And I had breakfast at mine this morning.

The L-shape is never used for dining - the last person brings the chair round to the other side, otherwise they're stuck on the outside (and in the way of the door).

When someone is actually sitting there, you have to squeeze one way or another, even if clearance looks good.

Keep the work surface, just don't add more seating three feet from your dining table (we've actually got our dining table elsewhere and a sideboard/dresser in the dining area to make up for the space lost to the breakfast bar - and our kitchen is larger than yours!).

One thing that might alleviate the butchers block awkwardness is having a range oven? We've got one with Ikea cover-thingies, and I tend to cook most nights using the cover over half for prep and chopping, and the hobs for cooking.

Empty space is great! Especially with a cramped dining area.

Both doors are entrances to the room - the one on the bottom right is from the end of the hall where the front door is. The one on the bottom left is to the end of the hall where the living room and playroom are.

We could in theory get rid of the door on the bottom left but I wondered if it would be annoying to have to walk down the hall and in and through the kitchen to get to the garden. It is north facing too so the idea was that it would let some light in.

If we did get rid of the door on the bottom left would you continue with the kitchen right to the corner? Whatever was there would be quite far from the sink/hob though.

I think we will go for a lighter colour too.

Don't have the butchers thing in the middle

If you really want one then get it on wheels (that can lock so it stays still and steady)

It then can also be moved around the room or got rid of completely

Another tip is to put the layout out with paper on the floor and walk around it doing the normal cooking/washing up/making coffee/cups of tea etc

Where do the mugs live?
Where do the plates live?

Get drawers for the saucepans and lids

Have lots of electrical sockets (many more tan you think you want

If that door to the hall isn't used as often then I wonder if a double - L config might work better. You could have whatever you need in tall units to the right of your patio doors, a bit of worktop then sink under window, and then an L on the other side with your hob and oven.

It would mean walking around the peninsula bit if you came in from the hall but that's probably not a huge deal, especially as you'd just dump shopping on it

If you lose the door on the left then you could put extra storage along that wall, eg larder cupboard or you could put the fridge there and have more countertops and lower cupboards between the ovens and fridge. I would shift everything slightly to the left (oven and fridge) so that when you walk in the door you aren't walking in surrounded by full length cupboards. It will make it look and feel less enclosed. Lighter colour is a good idea. Still lose the breakfast bar.

I'm against the majority; I'd keep the breakfast bar. Perfect for family informal dining, homework whilst you cook etc. But then I love to cook and be sociable

You have loads of cupboard space so I would do away with the high level units above the hob.
Replace cupboards with drawers where you can as they are easier to use generally.
If you are keeping the breakfast bar, I would have the cupboard space against the wall accessible from the table side - ie by the stool on the left. Saves having a hard to use cupboard or carousel thing.

I would:

• Have the cabinets above the hob go all the way to the ceiling. They’ll be a dust magnet as they are

• lose the breakfast bar (ie no seating on the peninsula) but keep that shape kitchen and have a deeper countertop with cabinet doors where the stools are. It’s clear just from the picture that even if you can fit four stools there, four living people couldn’t actually sit there without annoying each other. The deeper countertop will be good for putting dishes/plates etc on to set the table, and if you bake. It’ll also be a dumping ground for whatever comes in from the garden

• lose all the stools and all the chairs except one. I’d have a L-shaped bench attaches to the walls (ideally lidded) in that dining nook, with padded seat covers, then a pull out wooden bench along the side facing the French doors. Chairs and tables take up A LOT of space, when you consider space required to pull chairs out, let people past you to the far side etc. This layout would also be a real pita to vacuum (which you’d do loads around a dining table)

• lose open shelving. Dust and grease magnets. Either cabinet with doors or nothing (leave space for a clock or mirror or pin board)

• I’d put the ovens below your hob and have a larder cupboard there instead. But eye level ovens are fashionable these days. (Death trap for whoever is walking past when the oven door is open, in my eyes)

• fridge placement is good

• lose the butchers block. You will love that empty space when there are more than 2 people in that room. Your dimensions are quite tight in reality compared to your average human being

• where will your bin go?

Why would you sit at uncomfortable high stools rather than the table that is just there? I hate sitting on those stools.

The key is to buy comfy bar stools; upholstered with a back. I find them comfier than a lot of dining chairs. I never understand why MN doesn't seem to like them

I'm with you lazymare, I've never found a comfy high stool! I can see the point of breakfast bars in some layouts where there's maybe a main dining room and then a kitchen/family room without a table (or a really big room where the table is too far away to comfortably talk to the cook) but this room just doesn't seem big enough to me to warrant two sitting areas.

I never understand why MN doesn't seem to like them

Short legs and back pain.

My kitchen fitter made us a marvellous butchers block on wheels which we push against the wall most of the time (but use daily) but pull out into the middle if we have a house full of people or if we are cooking a big meal. Best thing in our kitchen.

It has a lip so that people can sit at it and it also stores wine!

CoperCabana that is a brilliant example of what I was trying to explain

It gives you so many more options than a built in one

Wheel it about as needed or not needed

You don't need to seat 4 at a breakfast bar. That would be weird. If you are four at lunch you'll sit at the table. My children do like to sit at the breakfast bar (which is next to the table) for breakfast so I can see accommodating two people for quick snacks but not 4 for lunch. Sometimes it is quite nice to sit at the breakfast bar to chat to the person in the kitchen so you are in their space and at their height - as opposed to further away at the table and lower down.

Also my general kitchen design tip is don't put the dishwasher in a corner (can't see where yours is). If it's in the corner when it's open you can't get to the cupboards to put things away. It needs to go in the middle or the end of a run.

Also low level (under cupboard) downlighters should face down not outwards or they blind you when you are sitting down and are at their height (you may not be having any but I learnt this to my cost)

We're tall with long legs so maybe that's why we find them comfortable 🤷🏽‍♀️ I think the important thing is to do what you want and like. I agree if you want the butchers block, put it on wheels

I wouldn’t get rid of the left side door, but I would get rid of the right hand door if possible!

My old kitchen door used to open right onto units like that and I really didn’t like it.

There is a possibility that we could make the kitchen a metre deeper so that we have more room for an island. Although I'm not that fussed, DH is.

I agree with comments about the breakfast bar - we'll only do two seated and if we have an island, two there. I am bothered about the dining area though as I think it's too cramped and will annoy me getting round it.

The dimensions are 2.6m deep by 3m long which is the size of our current dining area so it should be OK but it looks cramped in the picture. I don't really understand why.

The dishwasher and bin are either side of the sink.

I will definitely get rid of the butchers block.

I saw another kitchen designer today so I am hoping he comes back with a different option.

I think it probably looks cramped because it's closed in on three sides, but the planner might also be using a larger table than you have, the width can vary a fair amount and it makes a big difference. I used to have a 2.1m wide kitchen/dining area so I know all too well

Gut feel is that your current sizes just aren't quite big enough for an island, certainly in the current layout. I presume if you push back it would only be the kitchen bit extending? what would that make the dimensions of the main part of the room?

I think I would do:

-where the hob is now, all tall units including fridge and wall ovens (hot trays can go on countertop that's against the windows/at right angles to the units - my parents have this set up in their kitchen and it works fine!)

-where tall units are now, make it all low units (drawers), no wall ones. Put the hob here with a regurgitating hood (can't think of the right word!)

So you've got a wide galley of just low units on either side, which will feel more open. Glance left from the sink & you can see the table, glance right from the hob and you can see the table: only time you turn your back fully is for wall ovens

-keep breakfast bar shape but have slim cupboards where the stools are, ie double-sided peninsula

-choose a slimmer, bench style table for the dining space so it's less cramped

-keep left and right entrance doors for ease of use. Maybe put some open shelving where the plant is for cookbooks, nice jugs (fnar), pretty bowls

In terms of the width between units and it feeling too big, could you do deeper-than-usual base units? If you do all drawers that pull out all the way, you won't have the "lost at the back of the cupboard" problem. And your countertops will be lovely and deep

Yes table size makes a big difference. 2.6m wide dining area should be fine. You could have an 80cm table in the middle with 90cm walk around either side. That's loads. Maybe go for a bench or stools on one side if you're worried, and avoid picking a wide table. Round-extending-to-oval tables tend to be wider than rectangular ones so maybe avoid that to maximise the feeling of space.

We had a built in bench in our much smaller dining area. It is an efficient use of space but it does reduce access, especially if you have a table with legs at the corners. A pedestal or trestle table is better with a built in bench. But I think you have plenty of space for a normal table with chairs/stools/a mix.