Balcony and planning permission *images removed by MNHQ at OP's request*

[Morley19]

Does anyone have any experience of balconies and planning permission? Epxperience of a situation similar to mine?

My neighbours have put this up without planning permission. I have reported it and they have to put a retrospective planning application in.

The photo looking outside is the view from my bedroom window. gives them a direct view into my bedroom and even onto my landing. The external photo shows the vastness of it and the ridiculous amount of overlooking.

To me, there is no way they should get planning permission for this. but I hear of such weird decisions by councils. I have already drafted my objection (the planning application is meant to be in by end of this week) but I am very worried that they may get approval.

Thanks

Sorry I can see pics I would refuse this, I would be fairly confident that any planning officer would see this is unreasonable with or without a balustrade. It significantly increases your sense of or perceived overlooking whether they sit there or not from within your garden and your rear windows, a privacy screen would decrease light and outlook from your rear windows and also look rubbish (not a technical term).

Thanks Picktick

I have attached some more photos below to aid with visualising it (these were some of the photos I attached to my objection letter).

I agree with you that I have done everything I can. I have indeed got the ward councillor involved. He is horrofied at it. He has already asked for it to be called in if there is any mindfulness to approve it at delegated level.

I agree with everything you have said in your second post about making no difference if there were balustrades or not. This is why it has completely thrown me what the delegated officer said at the site visit yesterday. I said if there was nothing to stop them using it without balustrades then the effect is the same, I am still completely overlooked. In fact it would be worse as there would be no screen to protect the view into my bedroom. She just said 'yes it would be worse!' If our planning laws allow that then I am gobsmacked.

Just have to continue waiting. It takes ages. Not helped by the fact that the neighbours are not being the slightest bit cooperative. Starting with the fact that they put it up anyway knowing it needed permission. I had them both shouting at me on my doorstep a year ago saying they were doing it anyway and 'was I going to try and stop them?' but that's another story.....

Then the fact that it has taken 5 months of chasing from the enforcement officer to get a full applicaton in that could be validated. Which is ridiculous as they application itself is pretty simple. It took the threat of passing it to legals if they didn't comply within another 2 weeks.

To me, all this should count against them but I don't expect it will. Like so many of our laws, they all seem to be drafted to protect the 'perpetrator'

Thanks for your help, it is much appreciated

[Post edited by MNHQ to remove images]

Also picktick

What you say about perceived overlooking whether they are sat there or not - exactly that! The last two weekends I have been out in the garden and, even though there is noone on it, it just permanetly felt like big brother looking down on me. I am even compeltely overlooked inside my shed, through the shed windows! There literally is no escape from it!

Do you haev any advice about how I can challenge what she said about them being able to use it as a balcony if they refuse the railings?

I don't think you can under Planning, in my opinion it would become a building control issue in breach of building regs to use a balcony without a safety rail. If PP is refused and neighbour removes railing then I think that's the end of the matter, I don't see how Planning could make them put the pitched roof back or remove the door unfortunately. They could In theory leave it without a railing, Or put a Juliette balcony in front of the door likely without planning permission. If it's removed and they use it you'd have to report to building control.

Thanks

Yes unfortunately there’s nothing I can do about the doors and flat roof being there

With regards to a Juliet I have thought previously they could do that. However when I was looking at the planning portal the other day it seemed to suggest that, to do one within permitted development, it had to be 10.5m away from a side boundary?

See the last bullet point under ‘All Extensions’. Have I rad that correctly?

www.planningportal.co.uk/wales_en/info/3/common_projects/14/extensions

Another thing that they might be able to do:

Let’s say planning permission is refused (because it should be). Then enforcement action would be authorised and they would be given a time limit to take steps to rectify the breach. The enforcement notice stipulates the things that need to be done to prevent further action. This would probably be 1) remove the railings. But I’ve recently seen an old case at work where the steps were 1) remove the railings and 2) install physical barrier to make access to the roof more difficult. In the case I saw it involved Juliet railings. When I went out on site (years later, just the history for a current case) that’s what had been done.

Ok thanks jan that is helpful. Have I read the planning portal bit correctly about Juliet balconies and the 10.5m distance from side boundaries (to be within permitted development)?

I am hoping that it is refused and that is the end of it. When they were shouting at me they were saying how stupid it looks without the railings so they won’t be happy with it staying as a flat roof and doors. Am hoping they de ide to put it back to pitched roof and window

It certainly reads that way, but I've not heard of this before, this is the original legislation which I can't find reference to this 10.5m requirement? http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2015/596/pdfs/uksi201505966_en.pdf

Might come from case law, given me something to think about. Technical guidance doesn't mention either. 10.5m seems such an odd requirement.

picktick it surprised me too as I have researched Juliet’s before and never seen this. 10.5m seems a long distance. You don’t think it is meant to say 1.5m do you?

Could it be 10.5 metres between properties for say 2 separate blocks of flats rather than properties side by side?

Yes it was building regs who told us off for having no railing on our balcony, because it was dangerous and putting others at risk because there was nothing to stop stuff falling off. The neighbour had complained that a falling plant pot could have boinked her on the head. We said of course we plan to replace it but it will be in a few months because we’re saving up for a glass balustrade. And they said no, it’s dangerous and you need to shift your plant pots and chairs NOW and they can’t go back until there’s a barrier up. And we want it done ASAP otherwise we will serve you with an enforcement notice to force you to sort this out. I asked DH and he says what they threatened us with is a “section 36” notice which says you have to do the work to comply with building regs within 28 days.

So I’m surprised that the council would let OP’s neighbour have stuff up there with no PP and no safety barrier.

This has been bothering me all day, it's wales, different permitted development rules in wales, so this will be the case if you're in Wales, if England then I believe a Juliet is permitted development, no restriction on where on the rear elevation (side elevation different).

As sosig said if they remove the railing, get onto building control, don't assume Planning will do so.

Oh how embarrassing! I didn’t realise I had sent a wales version round! No wonder I hadn’t seen it before. So sorry! 😳 (and particular apologies to jan - sounds like I have wasted your time today!

Yes I think the rule in England is it is PD as long as it has no platform.

I am hopeful that if it gets rejected that will be the end of it. If they then play silly buggers with using it I will deal with that problem then

Thanks for all your help ladies

I will update the post as we go

Sorry pick I meant apologies to you. It is you whose time I wasted with the Welsh version 😳

One of my relatives is currently battling a selfish balcony building neighbour. They have employed the services of a planning consultant to write objections on their behalf, as they felt their complaints were simply being ignored by an overstretches planning authority who frankly would have found it easier just to let it go.
The planning consultant is based in the NW as it happens if you are interested.

Oh bubblegum yes I would be very interested. Could you PM me the details?

Thanks

Yes a planning consultant may be able to give you some tips, or even worth paying them to handle the objection for you.

I can’t bear people like this that just do as they want, without a thought for others and just flout planning law.

Thank goodness they don’t always get aways with it. Can you imagine what would go on without the strict planning policies.

Good luck OP.

Thanks for that Yoga

They are EXACTLY that type of person. They do whatever they want and don’t give a stuff about other people. Last year they installed a hot tub in their garden. They chose to put it right up against the fence less than a meter from my door (just behind the bamboo planters you can see in my photo). They are loud party people so the noise all summer from that was awful. If that happens again this year I will have to involve the noise/nuisance department at the council.

I don’t want to tempt fate but I am quietly confident this application will get refused

Thanks

Let’s hope they move soon then OP! Probably blame their “unreasonable” neighbours of course LOL 😂

I am sure your local authority will take a very dim view on it. Just madness.

We have recently sought help from a planning consultant, for a project we are looking to undertake, with PP of course, totally worth paying for expert advice. Most planning consultants seem to be ex-town planners so they know what’s possible or not.

Good luck.

I dream of them moving!

Then again you never know what you’ll get as a replacement!

I would be describing it as a roof terrace tbh!

Hi Random

Yes that is exactly how I have described it on my objection letter!

Hi all

It is technically decision day on this tomorrow so let's hope the council are sticking to their timescales....

However, even if it gets refused I may be back here for further advice. When I was recording my neighbours with their friends in the hot tub at 00.30am on Sunday for teh environemtal health department (yes I was woken up at midnight and then subject to vile anti-social noise disturbuance for an hour but that's another story).... I heard the neighbour say to his friend 'If we don't get approved for the balcony we will still use it but...... then his voice trailed off but I heard something about plants.

So I think they are planning on doing exactly what I feared.

If the application gets refused and they have to take their railings down I think they will still put furniture on the roof and sit there and create a 'surround' with plants.

What I discovered in my research shocked me. Whilst the railings might get denied (ie the actual 'development') apparently there isn't much that can be done to stop people just sitting on their flat roof (despite the fact that they would still be completely overlooking me!)

I know I am jumping ahead here but... even if application gets denied it sounds like I will then have that fight on my hands.

If they surround the permiter with plants and use the roof I guess my options then are:

• reporting for any anti social behaviour that goes on, nise disturbance etc.

• if the plants pots they surround the permiter with aren't secured, could I then report to some department at the council for safety reasons? As the balcony is right next to/above my patio, plant pots could fall off in the wind and fall on my patio (or my head!)??

• if the plants pots are secured to the roof could I challenge planning then on the original argument ie they have created a permanent 'structure,' like the railings?

Any assistance/views anyone has would be much appreciated.

I will update as soon as I have the dceision. PLEASE let it go my way

Thanks x