Balcony and planning permission *images removed by MNHQ at OP's request*

[Morley19]

Does anyone have any experience of balconies and planning permission? Epxperience of a situation similar to mine?

My neighbours have put this up without planning permission. I have reported it and they have to put a retrospective planning application in.

The photo looking outside is the view from my bedroom window. gives them a direct view into my bedroom and even onto my landing. The external photo shows the vastness of it and the ridiculous amount of overlooking.

To me, there is no way they should get planning permission for this. but I hear of such weird decisions by councils. I have already drafted my objection (the planning application is meant to be in by end of this week) but I am very worried that they may get approval.

Thanks

Well that's a result for the inspector to come to your property also! I'm impressed, well done you, sounds like they will be thorough.!

If this is to appeal refusal of pp then my understanding is that the enforcement process goes on hold until this is resolved. If pp is granted then the enforcement action and associated appeal become redundant.

Hi LIZS

Yes that is correct. Planning permission has been refused and they have appealed.

An enforcement notice was then issued but this just sits there until the appeal is decided. The planners issue the enforcement notice now, even though there is an appeal, in order that, if the appeal is denied, the enforcement notice then kicks in immediately

I am just trying to find out if my neighbours have also appealed the enforcement notice

Thanks

They wouldn't need to yet though.

Someone told me that they only had the 28 days to appeal it, even though it has been issued during the appeal process??

No I think the timeline will restart after outcome of the existing appeal.

Ah ok thanks fir that. It is confusing!

So, if it is denied (I flippin hope so!) the 28 days to appeal kicks in then

Thanks

IIRC an appeal against a refusal of planning permission foreshortens the length of time to appeal against an EN for the same development, and vice versa to prevent the process being drawn out by numerous appeals. I can’t remember the details, as it’s been ages since I dealt with one of these, but will have a dig. It will be in the PINS appeal guidance somewhere.

Right I have further info!

I have actually found the EN online now. The EN details that the applicants have made an appeal against the planning decision

However it then goes on to say that the EN comes into effect on 24 September unless an appeal is made before then. It then says they have to remove the railings within 28 days after that.

The way I understand it is, if the appeal is denied, the EN is then already ‘in effect’ and they then have 28 days to remove the railings

OK, if you have concurrent planning app and EN you have 28 days to appeal against a refusal of planning permission and must lodge the EN appeal before the notice comes into effect. EN will normally come into effect after 28 days but then give a longer period for compliance ie to do what the EN says, depending on the complexity of the breach. Enforcement and planning appeal can be conjoined but no point in appealing against an EN if only on ground a) as that is just that pp should have been granted.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/enforcement-appeals-procedural-guide

Yes, exactly to the last para of your last post. If they don’t once they are in breach they are committing a criminal not civil offence and can be prosecuted.

Thanks Magda.

So they had to appeal the EN by 24 September. If they have appealed it will that be on the PINS website?

I’ll email the admin contact I have there on Monday

It should be on the website and most likely flagging as a conjoined appeal with the refusal unless they submitted it at the last minute and haven’t got a ‘start date’ yet - that is it has been received but not yet registered and LPA formally notified.

PINS have a backlog at the moment so no start date yet is possible. BTW if submitted but PINS still considering if it’s valid they may not confirm to you whether it’s in or not. They should be able to give a definite negative though.

Thanks. I can only find the appeal to the planning refusal at the mo (which started on Monday). I will email the inspectorate office on Monday

Cross post. Thanks

The Council should know too as in theory they are meant to provide them a copy of their appeal submission, and at the time of submission.

Thanks Magda

I am glad that an end is in sight, it has been going on for a year now.

Just hope it is the correct ending! Have been googling all sorts. Apparent c35% of appeals are successful. That is higher than I expected.

I’m afraid there are huge numbers of planning authorities that get it wrong! Loads of people and housing developers appeal successfully. 35% sounds pretty feasible to me. I know plenty of developments that have been won in appeal around me!

To clarify my earlier comment: I meant that planning officers on this thread are not going to have access to your local planning policies. These will be of major importance to the Inspector who will want to be sure they have been applied fairly and reasonably. Therefore what posters think cannot be checked with your precise individual situation and local policies.

My DH works for numerous housing developers as a consultant. Developers always face very organised, vociferous, nimby objectors. The housing development is often won on appeal. Some Councillors stand on a ticket of “no building in X area” and persuade fellow planning authority members to refuse planning on very spurious grounds. This can often be against the professional opinion of the planning officers and their own policies! It’s a surprisingly common problem and being fined doesn’t stop them. It’s very wrong but it happens. Some do decide not to fight an appeal when their officers spell out the situation to them because evidence is clearly going to find in favour of the applicant. They often agree before an inspector gets involved. It saves money!

Inspectors will be fair. However I have seen balconies like this and a screen between the balcony and you might be ordered but again it will depend on your local circumstances. In any event, stats have nothing to do with it. So hopefully your planning officers have got it right!

Thanks bubbles

Your posts are certainly keeping me grounded (and worried!).

I can only hope that logic and reasonableness (and of course compliance with local policies) prevail! Even with a side screen, because we are semi detached houses, and due to the proximity and sheer size of this structure, there would still be an unobscured view over my entire garden and private patio.

Fingers crossed

Just to defend our profession, momentarily. Losing an appeal doesn’t mean that officers ‘got it wrong’. It means an Inspector considered the planning balance tipped in favour of approval rather than refusal. Many appeal proposals are very finely balanced with the numerous benefits of a scheme to be weighed against the adverse impacts. That is a matter of judgement, not of fact. Developers won’t tend to appeal unless they think the case is finely balanced as the risk of losing vs. submitting a revised scheme is much higher. (Householders submit ‘no hope’ appeals at much higher rates as they are often either badly advised or not advised at all).

That’s not to say that there aren’t unlawful and irrational decisions made. There are. That doesn’t mean planners or Councillors aren’t trying, as a whole, to act in what they consider to be the public interest.

Thanks Magda

That makes perfect sense (and hope I haven’t offended. The problem is developments like that of my neighbours have such a terrible impact on those affected, I have found it has made me irrationally emotional about the whole thing!)

When I read the 35% success rate I did wonder whether that would be biased more towards large complex full planning appeals by developers and that householder appeals might be a lower % rate within that?

I certainly hope that my neighbours fall into the ‘no hope’ category. It should be a black and white refusal in my mind but of course I am heavily biased!

The local ward councillor said to me that they have probably done it just to delay things as the first appeal doesn’t cost them anything.

I hope the rules have changed. I had an extension done years ago...there were some requirements made to reduce impact on neighbour...ie frosted glass in a window even though it was overlooking a stone wall at ground level. We complied and remain compliant, although the builder told us that once approval was given we could just remove it and nothing could be done. We didn't and it remains in place but seemed wrong if correct.

Hi Marie

That reminds me of what the head of building regs told me. Someone on here suggested that, if the railings had to come down, they wouldn’t be able to use the flat roof because building regs would require safety railings.

However when I spoke to building regs she said that wasn’t the case. She did say that, with planning applications done in advance ie not retrospective for things like this they could put a condition on saying railings had to be there but if the resident later removed the railings they have no enforcement powers.

How ridiculous is that?! Even she said the laws/regs were severely lacking in areas

@Morley19 Yes is ridiculous. I don't think it has changed. We had an extension done since and it wasn't an issue this time but it came up in discussion. Typical of this country in that we create rules and don't enforce them. Then means that twatty neighbours like yours do what they do and sod the neighbours