Balcony and planning permission *images removed by MNHQ at OP's request*

[Morley19]

Does anyone have any experience of balconies and planning permission? Epxperience of a situation similar to mine?

My neighbours have put this up without planning permission. I have reported it and they have to put a retrospective planning application in.

The photo looking outside is the view from my bedroom window. gives them a direct view into my bedroom and even onto my landing. The external photo shows the vastness of it and the ridiculous amount of overlooking.

To me, there is no way they should get planning permission for this. but I hear of such weird decisions by councils. I have already drafted my objection (the planning application is meant to be in by end of this week) but I am very worried that they may get approval.

Thanks

(Not a planning officer. )
Reading around the householder appeal though, I thought the Planning Inspectorate looks at the decision notice, and if the policies (including local) were applied in a reasonable manner?

Your authority do seem to have applied local and national policy to the issue, and there were a number of objections, not just yourself.

I've a good feeling about it for you.
(Feel free to come and kick me up the arse if it does not go your way).

Thanks Gill

If it was someone else I would be saying the same to them, that I don't think there is anyway it will get upheld.

However, when it is you, you tend to expect the worst more easily

Don't worry, the only arse I would be kicking is my neighbours!

Do you know if they have appealed the enforcement notice yet?

No I think they have just appealed the planning refusal at the moment

This is where I get confused.
So, they are appealing the Planning Decision and that's with the Planning Inspectorate at the moment and going through the process.

My understanding is that there is an Enforcement Notice issued. They have six months to appeal an EN, which seems to be an additional route of appeal for them. (?) They have not put in an appeal as yet on the EN. That appeal would go to the P.I. who have to validate it, and then it goes ahead I assume. The PI do this appeal process also.

Asking clumsily I know, but how do the two appeal processes fit together?
If PI uphold the planning officer decision are NDN still able to put in a separate appeal against the Enforcement Notice?
OR
Can the P.I. refuse to validate an EN appeal on the grounds that they have already turned down the householder appeal?

By heck, NDN certainly get a good run with this don't they?
(I still think they won't win but it's like a slow torture all these hoops to jump through).

It is confusing isn’t it?

I’m not totally sure but I’m sure someone will be along to inform us.

When an enforcement notice is issued I don’t think it takes effect until 28 days after the date of issue. Then it gives you a period of time after that 28 days to remedy the breach

My council have issued the enforcement notice regardless of the fact my ndn have appealed. I think this is so that, if they lose the appeal, it comes into effect immediately and then they had the given period of time to remove the railings. Is that correct anyone?

So if they wanted to appeal the enforcement notice when would they have had to do it?

The planning application was refused in June. They appealed within a few weeks. I don’t think the planning department got round to issuing the enforcement notice until August

So, if the enforcement notice was issued in August, then it seems they have six months from then to appeal, looking at this link.
www.gov.uk/appeal-enforcement-notice

Same link suggests that: an EN appeal would allow others to comment, unlike the householder appeal.

I found this link also, don't know if you heard of them Morley?
www.rtpi.org.uk/planning-aid/about-planning-aid/

Will step back a while and see if anyone wiser can clarify all of this.

It is confusing

If their application is refused and their appeal is refused I think it is highly unlikely an enforcement notice appeal would be successful

But they might do it just to drag it out

Whilst the appeal to the planning decision is taking place then the enforcement notice effectively goes into hiatus. If the appeal is unsuccessful then the LPA can enforce and they will need to remove the railings/whatever elements were sought in the refused planning permission.

I would say it is unlikely the Inspector comes to a different view than that of the LPA if they have done a thorough enough job although I have known it to happen. LPAs will try to make watertight decisions as appeals cost them a lot of money.

Thanks *bluetue
That

Thanks bluetue

That is really helpful

I read something online the other day that said 35% of appeals were successful! That worried me slightly as it isn’t an insignificant figure. Basically say that 35% of the time the LPAs got it wrong?

Grateful also to bluetue.

Bluetue is right but if they've not appealed a notice issued in August it's unlikely that they would now be able to. The lpa must give at least 28 days to appeal before the notice comes into effect. Although it can be more it's not usually much more than that. You can ask the lpa what the effective date is/was on the notice. If that date has passed then there is no way they can appeal the notice (which would include their only chance to argue that the development is permitted development or immune from enforcement action. The notice would only be ineffective if planning permission was granted for the exact same development on the planning appeal.
The trouble with developments such as this everyone gets a bit muddled with what it actually is.
I can already see a glaring error as it was described as 'retention of...xyz', when it should just be 'xyz'. Common error on retrospective applications.

Sorry, misread bluetue's post.

Strictly speaking the planning appeal has no effect on the notice. If the notice has come into effect then it's in effect and the recipient must comply by the compliance date (which may not have passed yet). However, if there is a planning appeal for the same development in progress the lpa would be unreasonable to force them to comply until their appeal has completed just in case they did in fact get permission.

It's interesting that they've not appealed the notice. To me, anyway

Hi

The planning officer changed the name of the application to include ‘retention.’ I was furious and immediately challenged it. They said it was just to distinguish between the two things, the railings that they were applying to retain and the screen that isn’t there yet. I was not happy.

I don’t think they have appealed the notice but I actually don’t know for certain

Are you a planning officer winds?

Do you think I am right to be concerned about the appeal?

A planning officer should know better than to include 'retention of'!

Not a planning officer although I know this subject pretty well (and sometimes know more than people who should!)

As I'm not a planning officer I'm not going to comment on the actual planning decision and what the chance or not of success is as I just don't know (and don't know what the local plans say). I'm afraid it's just a wait and see.

If I were you I would phone the enforcement officer and ask what the effective date of the notice is and if it was appealed before that date (if the date has passed). If it was not appealed find out what the compliance period/date was.

If they have appealed the notice you will get to put in a chance to comment. The lpa should write to let you know but I'd keep on the ball on that.

Thanks for that

I know the notice as definitely issued in August. If they had appealed the notice would that now be logged online somewhere?

Thanks

Possibly not online. Lpa will know either way.

Thanks. I’ll email the enforcement officer today

I emailed the enforcement officer asking for the fates etc on the enforcement notice and whether they had appealed but he didn’t reply

Of course he might just have been busy but I also think my name is mud at the planning office! I think I am a pain in their backside that just won’t go away! 🤣

They might get back on Monday, fingers crossed. Officer might have been out on site visit, or day off, or backlog etc.

Perhaps ring the general office number for planning and ask the planning support staff? They will usually say if the officer is in or not at least. Can you tell if email has been read?

Blooming mess, so sorry.

Or, I found when planning officer did not speak to me, at all, over several months, he did manage to return a call from my local councillor after I got her involved.

Thanks Gilchrist

If I don’t hear on Monday I will email the girls in the admin office.

At least the planning inspectorate admin people emailed me today confirming that the inspector is happy to view the offensive viewing platform (ok they didn’t call it that!) from my property too on 19th. So that is good