London with children - Muswell Hill or Richmond?

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Hello
I've done extensive research on these two areas but can't decide which would be best? Can you mumsnetters give some opinions?
They are both very naice family-friendly expensive! areas.
I'm freelance though may go back to paid employment (London based) in the future. DH works in Cannon Street. Not much chance to work from home. Long hours. Budget is around 1.5 though renting for a while and hoping budget will increase a bit in a couple of years.
I'm more lefty. DH more conservative. Both love big outdoor spaces. More friends in SW London though know a few people in N London. Family not close by boo.
I liked the idea of Coldfall or St Michaels (know its nearer Highgate though this may work better as nearer tube) Also liked Tetherdown.
Also liked Vineyard and Sheen Mount in Richmond and also Deer Park.
Thought I'd prefer Richmond as feels less full on, the park, Kew, Thames,
Barnes wetlands - huge amount to do for kids. Felt a bit easier to think of them wandering round by themselves as teens there. Plus good shopping in Richmond and Kingston and easy to get to museums on the tube.
But Muswell Hill has great state secondaries, the woods, indie shops.
I've read lots on mumsnet and get the feeling there is a lot of tutoring in north London that keeps the school results so good but maybe Richmond is quite posh and not as friendly?
I'm basically just pondering aloud! Where do you prefer and why? Richmond is more expensive I think. Plus flight noise. Commute from both around 45 mins though MH nearer for biking.
Fanks

I grew up in Muswell Hill and now live in Richmond. They are both lovely.

The real downside to Muswell Hill is slightly shitty transport links (although it's not as bad as Crouch End) the only tube station is Highgate and that's a fair schlep unless you're on the right side of the hill.

Schools in both your areas are fine but you need to be aware of catchment areas and house prices are crazy. £1.5m won't buy you much in Richmond, I don't know the market these days in Muswell Hill so can't help there.

In short, they are both really nice. If I were you I'd look at specific houses and see which place you can find a house you like and can afford.

I grew up a bit further out than Richmond and always wanted to live there. It’s a lovely area, transports links great (15 mins to Waterloo on the fast train, tube straight to the museums), parks great, shopping great. You can’t go wrong.

Biggest determiner for me would be where do the people you will visit most live?

If you have family to the north, choose north London, vice versa if family to the south and west, Richmond.

Having to drive or otherwise travel across London to leave it can add 1.5 - 2.5 hrs to your journey before you've even got going on the journey.

Think transport links are also a biggie for me. Length of daily commute directly and massively affects the amount of time we get with DC.

So we live closer to the centre than either of your options (just outside zone 1) and have sacrificed both square footage and outside space for that. But my journey to and from work is 25 mins door to door and we can be on Hampstead Heath in 15 mins at the weekend, with loads of lovely smaller parks closer by.

It's a compromise that works for us

goodlucktime family in SW and N. 🤔 but yes perhaps we should focus now on commute and what our money could get. I'd rather be in the right location than have a larger house.

Muswell Hill is a bit meh. I wouldn't choose to live there. It's just very bland London if you know what I mean. Nothing wrong with it beyond the usual things that are wrong with London but nothing good about it. I lived around that part before moving out of London. Would consider a move to a Richmond type area but you couldn't pay me to go back to muswell hill.

Ooh Resting can you expand? I do kind of get what you mean (I think) - lots of rows of Edwardian homes and not great transport.

What about Highgate? As if we rent there we could go for either St Michaels or Highgate primary.
Better commute, more personality, near the Heath and woods.
Or is it really like that Highgate Mums Twitter feed makes out? 😂

Richmond is lovely, but 1.5 won’t buy you much more than a small flat on the Vineyard. If you were prepared to look a little further out from central Richmond, somewhere like St Margaret’s (which is fabulous, imo) you could get something very nice.

I have to say the flight noise, specially as they continue to expand Heathrow beyond the limits of anything even vaguely reasonable would put me off Richmond, lovely as it is.

Don't really know Muswell Hill.

The flight noise isn't much of a problem for Richmond imho. That all might change once the new runway is built - will be interesting to see what it does to Richmond house prices. Its other local areas like Isleworth and Twickenham that currently get the noise.

St Margarets is really nice and you'll get a better house but it's on the slow line into London so your commute will be worse. Twickenham is on the fast line and cheaper than Richmond. It also has great schools (especially if you have a girl and are in the catchment for Waldegrave) but it's not as nice as Richmond.

Highgate is more quirky than Muswell Hill (I agree it's a bit bland but then Richmond sort of is too). I've not read the Highgate Mums feed thing but if it's anything like Overheard In Waitrose there will be a lot of truth in it!!

Have you been to both areas and had a potter around?!

I prefer Richmond due to the river. Lots of lovely riverside walking and cycling to be had. However, I agree that 1.5m won’t get you a large house though it depends on what your requirements are?

If twickenham (suggested above) is in contention, it's certainly no Richmond but has much more of a community feel to it. And v easy to reach Richmond when needed.

I don't really know Muswell Hill. However, Richmond is lovely with good transport links, parks and the river. It's the safest London borough too. The standard of state education is amongst the highest in the country if you want to go down that route. I don't know about school catchments but it's possible to get a small family home within short walking distance of the station and local amenities for 1.5M.

As a north Londoner I would go for the Highgate side of Muswell Hill. But these places are quite different. Muswell Hill is more a part of London and is socially very mixed whereas Richmond feels like a town in its own right, with quite a genteel identity. Are you a city person or not? I would base it on that as well as convenience issues like jobs and where your friends and family are. If you have more friends in SW London that could swing it.

I agree with MajesticWhine. They have different feels.

Oh yes I've been to both many times! I love both of them so I guess it's a good problem to have!

I am a city person most definitely but I'm also a middle of nowhere person too! I think I'm just struggling with where best for children. If you had to push me I'd probably want to be in north London Highgate/Muswell Hill way without kids though I think Richmond better for children - more genteel like you say. Though Muswell Hill far from the Bronx!!
Drip feeding now but back story is used to live in north London so know it very well but moved out pre kids. Regretted immediately but I do see advantages of where we are (space, less pollution, less hectic) and back then we couldn't have afforded anything anyway in the areas we liked. We're now holding out to see if we can move back. Budget may be more like £2-2.25m in 2-3 years.
We've looked everywhere and feel that if we're going to move back we might as well move to a area we want to be in rather than move to an area we don't know or like all that much that might be cheaper and the compromise is the size of home. If we didn't have children we would never have moved out. I'd be happy in most areas in London without kids to be honest! But feel strongly that I want my kids to have some form of freedom and green around them - hence the two choices! Totally overthinking this i know. Thanks for your comments. It's really useful getting other viewpoints.

There are many areas that you could move to in London, ie upmarket, green and not too far from central London. South of the river, your other options could be Wimbledon or Between the Commons in SW11.

On the state school front, just make sure you’re in the right catchment in your rental property. Once the older child gets in, the younger will have priority anyway. So when you buy, it won’t matter if you’re out of their catchment. If your children are of school age already, that might pose a problem - you might be assigned a place in whatever school has a place, even if it’s miles away or not one that you’d have chosen.

Personally I would go for SW as that is where you have lots of friends. The river and wide network of parks will add a really nice extra dimension to family life - kids can do water-based sports etc.

Also you are only an hours drive from the south coast for day trips to the beach (West Wittering / Brighton etc). You also have the beautiful South Downs National Park and villages in the Surrey Hills on your doorstep. Muswell Hill doesn't have any of these - but maybe these don't float your boat? If I had your 2-3m budget and wanted urban and green - I would go central not suburban - so near Regents Park / Hyde Park etc.

Another20, do you consider Richmond or Muswell Hill suburban I live in the ‘burbs and it’s very built up and busy to me in places like Richmond

Yes I see these as suburbs - as you say busy and built up - I would prefer to be either 'in' or 'out' if money is no object.

Hackney/Stoke Newington has great schools. But it's a schlepp to SW London

Have a look through the Local Richmond thread. The schools chat thread is the only one on there with any traffic, but has lots of information (and a bit of gossip). I'd say Richmond, so long as you were not on the incoming flight path (so not Kew).

Can you look outside of Richmond proper? So so many lovely areas nearby that don't command quite the Richmond price tag. £1.5 simply doesn't get you very much, but agree that it's by far your better choice.

How about Teddington (still on fast commute and very villagey), Hamptons, North Kingston (stay close to the river or park)? All have great schools and lots of things going for them individually.

Agree with pps - Muswell Hill wouldn't do it for me at all! Oh, Richmond Park on a winter morning!

My brother lives in north sheen, gets a lot of the benefit of Richmond but a little cheaper. You get used to the planes. Choosing state primary schools for dn came down to Cantonese lessons vs school orchestra! They love it.

I grew up near Richmond and love it. 1.5m wouldn't go far in Richmond proper but in some of the surroundings areas you could get more for your money.

Teddington, which someone else mentioned, is ovely - near Kingston for shopping, villagey feel, near the river and Bushy Park, excellent state primaries, in catchment for some good state secondaries and also close to good independents. You could probably get a four bedroom house there for your budget.

Someone else mentioned Between The Commons, which is close to where I live now and quite family friendly - there are houses there in your budget too although you have to be careful about the tiny catchments for the most popular schools.