Moving a bathroom to make a 3-bed flat. Worth it?

[Summerysunny]

We've just put an offer in on an almost 1100sq ft flat in london. It has two actual bedrooms and one study that's big enough to be a bedroom, but has no windows so count as - or be used as - a bedroom.

The bathroom (and ensuite together), however, have windows and is roughly the same size. So I'm wondering about turning that into a bedroom and the windowless-study-room into the bathroom.

But this would also wipe out the ensuite as they're next to each other. (If that makes sense?)

My question is... is a third bedroom worth it in terms of resale value? (This flat is a sort of temporary purchase - for maybe the next three years - so have to make clever decisions).

And is losing an ensuite going to devalue?

Also - any clues on cost?!? Or is that a "how long is a piece of string" question?

I've added the floorplan...

Ok so many typos there! But I think you can get my drift...

Sorry to keep adding...
another idea would be to knock out that half bedroom altogether and have a two-bed, two-bath flat with a huge living space.

Just trying to work out what would be the most attractive layout!

(Should also add that the picture knocked out the windows - the run along the bedroom side. One on each bedroom, plus ensuite. And on the other side, one bedroom and the living space opens onto the garden.

I personally wouldn't buy a place that has no windows in the bathroom. Could you knock the ensuite and bathroom together and have a walk in shower?

I really would recommend living there for a while before you decide - it names such a difference IME

looking at the floorplan though I wonder whether you'd be better making a smaller hall to make that a larger 3rd bed. But it don't work if there are no windows.

I feel the same as you about no windows in the bathroom. But it's the norm around here, so prob won't put people off (where we're all scrabbling around for scraps to get a property!!)

Do you think a big bathroom is better than an ensuite (for resale)?

And would that study/ half bedroom with no windows put you off?

aram inta - yes the hall is kind of a waste too big!

What are the sizes of the study/current bathroom and ensuite and living space?

Is there any way to make it into a legal bedroom by adding a frosted glass high-up window into the living room where the opening currently is, and a frosted glass panel in the door, also moving the door back level with the hall cupboard to make a bigger room?
Would be much cheaper than a new bathroom and you could keep the ensuite

It would not surprise me if the flat was originally as you suggest - a 3-bed - and has been converted to a 2-bed 2-bath to make it attractive to renters.

Having lived in London, I would say that a 3 bed would give you the most return on investment if you were doing works. The plumbing should be OK as the kitchen backs onto it, but does depend on your soul pipes which could be very expensive.

I don't think it would add much value in itself to open up that living space - people may well buy it and use it as a 3 bed regardless of the legal situation of not being a proper "bedroom", at least for temporary guest accommodation. But once you live in it it would become clearer if you needed extra space.

In my experience, fewer larger 'light' spaces are better than more cramped/windowless rooms.

Our maisonette used to be 3 bedrooms upstairs with a windowless bathroom and kitchen both squeezed into the space where the kitchen now is. The people before us converted the smallest of the bedrooms (3x2m) into the bathroom, and doubled the size of the kitchen. Having seen next door's, which is still in the original layout, I can honestly say we would never have bought ours if it hadn't been converted. As it hasn't got the same sense of space and light, and I feel I'd always be 'putting up with' the bathroom and kitchen.

Also - ventilation is obviously an issue for a windowless bathroom.

Would be cheaper to keep the bathrooms as is as look decent sizes/layout and move the living space into the study, or move the kitchen into it when knocked a wall through to give more living space?

Plus we need to know about the market. The advice will be different if you're in an area full of young professions vs families for example

Depends where you are and what you want to do with it long term. Ren out to professionals by room- you could squeeze in another double bedroom and bathroom in the lounge area, then have an open plan kitchen living area by incorporating study and some of hallway. Family market. Yes i'd swap the study and bathrooms.

But likely it will go to a couple who would prefer the layout exactly as it is. Speak to a local EA, but I would leave it.

It would be better to keep the current bedroom and bathroom layout, but move take out the wall between the study and kitchen/living and then move the kitchen into what is currently the study, and then carve out another bedroom from a bit of the living room to include one of the windows.

You will need to keep the en suite for the biggest bedroom and then move the door for the other bathroom so it isn't an ensuite but can be used by the other 2 bedrooms

If this makes sense..?

My previous three properties have all had windowless bathrooms so that wouldn't bother me in the slightest (I actually think I prefer it!).

Is the largest bedroom spacious enough to actually add an en-suite into the room itself? (Even borrow a slice of space from the living room?).

Cheapest is to put a window in the cupboard and extend study to the front door.

IF it's not a supporting wall.

Damn i just typed out a really long reply and I lost it as phone crashed!! Here goes again...

Wow thank you for all your replies!

Here's some answers:
I don't have the floorplan with the measurements anymore, annoyingly, will try and dig it out...

But it's in zone 2 London, a very "trendy" bit. Also over the road from an outstanding school - which is why we offered on it.

The neighbourhood is a mix of young families (because of the good schools) and young people.

Apparently, the thing everyone asks estate agents for around here is "three bedrooms and a garden" (as did we - but got this one anyway!).

Garden is east-facing, which is a bit of a bummer. Bedrooms are south facing - but half blocked by next door. So that light isn't as fab as it could be, but not so bad.

laurie and margaret - frosted glass is a good idea! I thought about that. Cheaper than moving the bathroom... how do people feel about those sort of bedrooms?

sparechange - that's a great idea! My husband's preferred option for a bedroom. My only worry is losing light from the main space (I'm obsessed with light!). It's so tricky!

Can't remember who else I replied to and missed!

Oh yes lemond - I actually agree in terms of how I'd prefer to live (larger, lighter rooms and fewer of them). I'm getting quite caught up in making sure it resells really well, maybe!

And it is big enough - at 1100 sq ft - to have 3 beds in theory. Hmm...

Don't forget, you will most likely need the consent of the landlord/freeholder to make alterations to the internal layout. If you have a copy of the lease, read it to make sure alterations can be done (subject to consent) rather than finding out later on that you are not permitted to knock down any walls.

spickle - yes defintely! Been told rearranging will probably be ok with the leaseholder but will confirm before completion if we decide to for sure.

I think sparechanges option makes sense - you could do something to draw light through from the new bedroom like having a high level window/glass bricks

like this, but internal

You'll need a minimum window size for the new bedroom to get it through building regs but an architect can help with that.
Is it a new build or conversion? Might be more difficult to alter the window size in a new build if the current window isn't big enough to comply with building regs...

I wouldn't put the bathroom into the study as you'll have to make it smaller to put in a second door - we've got a cloakroom leading off the kitchen and I hate it!

I would also keep it and use the door/glass bricks/high window idea to get light in to the 3rd bedroom. Don't think the faff of moving it/potentially losing ensuite is worth it imo.