Moving a bathroom to make a 3-bed flat. Worth it?

[Summerysunny]

We've just put an offer in on an almost 1100sq ft flat in london. It has two actual bedrooms and one study that's big enough to be a bedroom, but has no windows so count as - or be used as - a bedroom.

The bathroom (and ensuite together), however, have windows and is roughly the same size. So I'm wondering about turning that into a bedroom and the windowless-study-room into the bathroom.

But this would also wipe out the ensuite as they're next to each other. (If that makes sense?)

My question is... is a third bedroom worth it in terms of resale value? (This flat is a sort of temporary purchase - for maybe the next three years - so have to make clever decisions).

And is losing an ensuite going to devalue?

Also - any clues on cost?!? Or is that a "how long is a piece of string" question?

I've added the floorplan...

But the problem is you can't advertise it as a bedroom without a window (fire escape). If it is a 'family' market you will be selling to, I think it is absolutely worth doing. No way would I compromise the already small (for a family) living space to squeeze in an extra bedroom this way. There is space to squeeze in an en suite into the master bedroom, and also add the extra hall way into the old study then split into a utility and bathroom. If you can partially separate off a reception room with dividing doors you will have a perfect family layout!

With SpareChanges idea the third bedroom would have a window the internal window would be to reduce the loss of light in the living area - there would still be a proper window. The lack of window rules out the study as a bedroom, so only really leaves the options of straightening off the living space or taking both current bathrooms out. You'd need to reconfigure all the soil pipes for that too which would likely mean ripping up the hall.

If you took the space from the living area then the kitchen could then move back in to the study area - or the dining table moved there depending on how much you wanted to spend - so the loss of living area wouldn't be significant it would just be reconfigured.

Taking the space from the living area could be done more cheaply IMO - the door is in the right place, as is the window, so you would only be building an internal wall (possibly with some high level glass). Moving the kitchen could be a future job or done straight away.

1100 Sqft is adequate for a 3 bed flat

Yes I know @statstically challenged it is what I suggested doing if you want to rent out to 3 sharers up thread. My comment was to @bobbybobbins. For a family market I still think it's best to swap study and bathroom though, and you then gain a small (windowless) utility or study too off the living space at the back. Works better for a family.

How are you planning on accessing the soil stack? You are unlikely to be able to put in your own which means somehow getting waste from one side of the flat to the other. A pumped macerator is not an option because building regs says you can have one as your only toilet - quite sensibly because they don't function during a power cut.

I'd leave the bathrooms where they are.

Nick some of he reception room next to bed 2 to make a 3rd bed with windows.

Knock the study into the reception and move the kitchen back into that corner of the room.

Would be way cheaper than moving the bathrooms and dealing with the soil stack issue.

Like this

Also 1100 is plenty big enough for 3 beds.

Most 3 bed semi detached houses are less than that. Most 2 bed new build flats are 600!

Oh @sparechange totally already nailed it :-)

But yeah - I probably would just use it as a bedroom anyway to see how it feels for a while before doing major alterations. You could fit a frosted glass door with minimal expense whilst you are considering options.

Depends where the soil stack is. As the ensuite and bathroom are right next to one another, looks like the soil stack is the opposite side of the flat from the study.

Think you could rearrange kitchen/study/cupboard to make an extra bedroom though, but depends on location of supporting walls.

Will post diagram in a mo.

Here we go

I was going to suggest the same thing that sparechange said, but it is possible that bed 3 would be too narrow with that plan. I would consider keeping it as a two bed, but moving the kitchen into the study anyway (with folding or pocket doors across the divide), so that there is more reception room space and it is possible to separate the kitchen. This is probably what I would do if I was buying it.

I have been searching for some time to buy the right flat in London of around that size (unfortunately most flats seem to be a lot smaller), so my opinions might be relevant (although of course London is a big place so might be a very different area).

I don't like windowless bathrooms, but see them on a lot of flats and it wouldn't actually rule out a purchase for me.

In terms of resale you need to think who it will be aimed at. The current layout appears to be set up to appeal to two sharers (eg. BTL), but would also work fine for a couple with a child or two or who want a spare room/extra study.

I think you need to talk to a real architect but here's my best shot...

Ooh, I like that Pocket

Ooh so behind here but thank you! So much information that I really need! (Didn't know anything about soil sacks before!!)

pocket - that is fantastic! Now wondering about putting a sliding door on bedroom 3 so I can keep it open to let the light into the dining area (as we'll just use that bed for a study/ storage/spare room). What a great use of that hallway space!!!

One thing you need to be aware of is that agents love to appease you by saying that you'll be able to do xyz really easily and the freeholder will have no problem with it. The freeholder may have very different ideas and they may even want you to pay all sorts of admin fees for them to even consider it.

I'm going to be contrary - I like pocket's suggestion space wise but, a lot of families would not like having the bedrooms opening directly off the living space. I suspect a lot of sharers would dislike it too - in both cases the lack of hallway will mean the noise from the living space will really travel in to the bedrooms.

The deal breaker for me wouldnt be a third bedroom, it would be having no kitchen and instead a few kitchen units in your lounge. Food smells and looking at your washing up etc.

I don't think you could do away with the hall... I saw a few flats recently where the bedroom doors led off the living room, and the agents for both pointed out how easy it would be to put a hallway in, which suggests they know they aren't popular

freeniki Open plan kitchen/living rooms are popular to the point of ubiquitous in London, especially in flats
It might be a deal breaker for you, but the vast majority of flat buyers would expect it and will see the same in most other flats they are viewing

Hmm the open plan living area starts to look poky with the hall like this....

That bathroom is tiny. In coverting it to a bedroom you'd barely fit a single bed in it.

Id do away with the study: create a big arch and turn the study into a kitchen off the lounge.

@PocketNiffler I don't like all the bedrooms opening off the lounge for noise purposes. Much better to have a hallway.

It would be a long corridor type bedroom with a window on the end presumably.

Still think OP original plan is best by far! Hate squeezed in long thin rooms though. And a hallway is essential.

Can you tell I've got work to do?! Doors aren't opening the right way here and the bed is in the wrong direction as I tried to copy and paste the originals for scale. Still makes your living area a bit pokey. In my head the washer dryer cupboard (if that's what it is!) not opens into the kitchen and there's a coat cupboard on the other side.

I'm not sure it's worth it to have such a small living are and block so much light. I'd probably leave everything as is to be honest! If you don't actually need another full time bedroom....

I was going to suggest similar to pocket but how do you edit pictures like that ? (On ipad) can't really describe it very well