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Tenant has changed locks, gone away and left lights on.

263 replies

Brightonhome · 08/02/2017 12:59

New tenant is two months in to a six month let (to be extended after 6 months) No issues before, although he does have a weird habit of leaving all the lights on all the time (the property we let to him is visible from our house). He has a regular job, and it's his electricity bill, but I still find it a bit odd. He has been away for at least a couple of weeks now with all the lights still on. I sent him a nice text asking him if he would mind me going in and turning the lights off (concerned about overheating / electrical problem) I waited for two days with no answer. I then went over there, thinking he may be ill, to discover he has changed the locks (as is his right) but without telling me. As the owner of the property, I feel a bit uneasy about this. Don't I have the right to a set of keys? I would never enter the property without the tenant's consent, but in the case of an emergency, there is nothing I can do without keys. Not sure what to do now re lights. Am I being overly cautious and worried over nothing? I've been letting this property for six years (two different tenants in that time) with absolutely no problems whatsoever. I have always had keys.

OP posts:
user1471467016 · 08/02/2017 16:23

The op has texted to ask if he wants the light turning off. She's hasn't stormed the house or evicted him. She lives near and its neighbourly. all the what ifs assume she is bad, but what if she somehow managed to open the door, heard him groaning and managed to save him, in the nick of time. That would be ok?
What about people who lie undiscovered for months/years, she'd be critizied for not looking out for him (lights on, no answer, time passes- landlord didn't care as tenant pays the bills).
Leaving all the lights on for weeks is odd, and it's worth asking him about it.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 08/02/2017 16:28

It is indeed legal to not allow the landlord a key. In fact, many insurances require that the tenant controls who has access.

And has been said numerous times, it is legal for the LL to insist on having one as long as it is the tenancy agreement.

If you flat refuse and there is this clause, you could be seen as in breech of contract.

TheHodgeoftheHedge · 08/02/2017 16:29

user1471467016 but she did try to storm the house?!! And it's none of her business what he does with those lights!

DianaMemorialJam · 08/02/2017 16:29

He's well and truely caught you out there, op. The only way you can approach him about changing the locks will involve having to admit you tried to enter unlawfully.

I own my property and thank my lucky stars I don't have to live in fear of a busy body landlord poking their nose in because my fecking lights are on.

MissLupescu · 08/02/2017 16:31

Breach of contract - serve notice for eviction

Not much else you can do

Gallavich · 08/02/2017 16:33

If you flat refuse and there is this clause, you could be seen as in breech of contract

But if your landlord took you to court and you produced the insurance policy which states void if a 3rd party holds a key, the judge would have to decide whether the tenant was truly in breach. If the tenant had provided for a contingency in case of emergencies (and in an emergency the door can be forced anyway) then a judge may well rule that the clause was disproportionate and the tenant has the right to stay.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 08/02/2017 16:47

then a judge may well rule that the clause was disproportionate and the tenant has the right to stay.

Or they might say, you took on the tenancy and then got the insurance, knowing the clause was there.

Gallavich · 08/02/2017 16:50

Seriously. Judges use far more common sense than you give them credit for. They are also averse to making people homeless. An exemplary tenant who pays rent and changed locks in order to insure their belongings - a winner in most judge's eyes. A landlord would need more than that to get an eviction.

Brightonhome · 08/02/2017 16:51

When I get home, I'll have a look at the tenancy agreement to see what it says. I'm really quite taken aback at the level of vitriol directed towards me. My DH and I have a good relationship with the tenant although we haven't known him long. He's been over to our house a few times for a coffee, or to discuss a couple of issues (a window lock needed replacing, and he wanted to know where the stop-cock was, normal stuff) He seems like a nice man. I have let this property for six years, firstly to a postman who left after five years to get married. We went to the wedding. Second tenants were a couple who purposely rented it for six months only due to their own house having building works done. We went to their house-warming party. Clearly some people on this thread have had bad landlords, but I can assure you, my only intention was one born of concern, not nosiness or illegal entry. I have learnt that I can not enter his home without direct permission from him. I have also learnt the ins and outs of cannabis farming, good to know if things get tight. I thought mumsnet was a place to get advice, not to get insulted and maligned (however entertaining it was to read). It seems like there's a pack-mentality going on here, with some posters getting more and more abusive as the thread goes on. Thank you to everyone who has given me advice, but I won't be commenting again.

OP posts:
MissLupescu · 08/02/2017 16:52

Or they might say, you took on the tenancy and then got the insurance, knowing the clause was there.

Then it would be considered an unenforceable clause in your tenancy agreement if all insurance policies stated no keys to a third party.

A tenant has a right to have a valid insurance policy, just like a homeowner.

Gallavich · 08/02/2017 16:52

I have learnt that I can not enter his home without direct permission from him

You didn't know that already? Shock

MissLupescu · 08/02/2017 16:53

OP, I don't think all the vitriol is directed at you.

It's the other posters who haven't got a clue what they're talking about.

DianaMemorialJam · 08/02/2017 17:00

Op no one has abused you, you nearly broke the law by entering his home without permission. HTH.

Gallavich · 08/02/2017 17:01

I think a landlord who tries to let themselves into a tenant's home without permission deserves a little bit of vitriol tbh. All that guff about going to their tenants' weddings and house warming just illustrates the dangers of amateur landlords. Who cares if you are mates with your tenants if you fail to grasp your basic legal responsibility?

DianaMemorialJam · 08/02/2017 17:01

Galla you're awesome.

TheHodgeoftheHedge · 08/02/2017 17:03

Are you serious? You didn't know you shouldn't just let yourself into his home?! Please tell me that was a joke?

specialsubject · 08/02/2017 17:05

Led fairy lights on all the time?

Rented or owned, this is not smart.

Pmsl at 'evicted asap' . unless you are in Florida, asap will be up to a year.

Gallavich · 08/02/2017 17:10
Blush
Mrsfrumble · 08/02/2017 17:24

Brightonhome I'm sorry you feel attacked. You sound like a lovely person, if a little under-informed as a landlord. I think some of the "robust" responses are a result of a recent spate of threads on MN by amateur landlords who seem alarmingly unaware of tenancy law.

As someone who has been a tenant for nearly 20 years I do find it frustrating. We let through an agency at the moment, and even then I've had to fend off a property manager who wanted to let herself in to our flat to do an inspection without our consent. This sort of think is why posters get prickly on threads like this.

DeleteOrDecay · 08/02/2017 17:36

I have a clause which allows me to access to my property in our rental contact

Pretty sure that's not legal and wouldn't stand up in any court.

Op you shouldn't have tried to enter his home. It does sound like you are genuinely concerned but if you didn't live so close to be property you'd be non the wiser either way.

And who ever said lights on all the time is a dead giveaway that it's a cannabis farm is seriously uninformed. You can't grow cannabis from regular home lighting ffs.

BoneyBackJefferson · 08/02/2017 17:42

JanuaryMoods

I have changed the locks in every house/flat that I have rented. I have used the same locks each time. (I admit that the agency that I have rented through has a set of keys)

But I change the locks because I value my privacy, If you are decent landlord you value the privacy of your tenant too.

and just FYI if the landlord let themselves in to my home I would be looking for a legal remedy as they shouldn't be entering as I rented through an agency.

MissLupescu · 08/02/2017 17:49

I bet many good landlords don't realise their tenants have changed the locks because they haven't tried entering without the tenants permission.

Only the amateur/dodgy landlords get riled up about it because they've tried to gain entry without the tenant knowing.

BWatchWatcher · 08/02/2017 17:50

Maybe the lights are on because he's running a potfarm.

Gallavich · 08/02/2017 17:59

Have you cancelled the cheque?

Brightonhome · 08/02/2017 18:07

OK, last post. I'm home now and have had a look at his 'Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreement' a seven page document written by 'The National Landlords Association' It is the latest one as of a couple of months ago.
My tenant sat and read all the clauses fully twice and made no adjustments. He has a copy too. We are fulfilling all our obligations to the full.
Under the subject matter 'Access to the Property', it says this:
"To permit the Landlord or other persons authorised by them: at all reasonable times after giving the Tenant at least 24 hours written notice"
( I gave him 48 hours text notice which was marked 'seen')
"To enter the property to examine the state and condition of the Property and contents and to carry out maintenance"
Under the subject matter 'Key and Alarm codes', it says this:
"The Tenant agrees that the Landlord shall hold a set of keys and that the tenant shall not install or change the door locks or alarm codes, without the express written permission of the Landlord"

OP posts:
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