£32k deposit, £35k salary...can't afford to buy. Am I missing an option?

[Cronx]

In London, of course. No one needs to tell me to get over it, I tell myself the same every day, and at least I have a roof over my head and a job, etc. I am truly appreciative of this. So this is less a whinge, more asking if anyone has any bright ideas? If I had been in this position 5-10 years ago I would have been laughing, but the timing has been terrible for me, with house prices increasing exponentially and interest rates being virtually nothing, therefore leaving me with virtually no returns on my savings.

I'm single, 32 and have no children. It's not feasible for me to move to Grimsby or something at the moment, though I would definitely be open to it under different circumstances*

But my current living situation is a bit difficult. I live with my mum and pay rent to her, but way less than I would be paying if I were renting on my own. We share housework, bills, food etc but I just want my own space and to live like an adult. I've had enough of house shares, my current situation is better than that, and at least I get to keep saving this way. Renting would eat up my income and put my savings back so I would be in worse position in the long term.

But it feels like my saving is completely futile.

Without wanting to sound like an entitled whiner, I am so frustrated. I have been working and saving like mad, and I lead a really modest lifestyle (I'm quite boring and frugal anyway so this wasn't too hard, and I am happy to continue doing this). But it's getting me nowhere, especially with interest rates through the floor and no sign of them going up.

I know the answer is "too bad, suck it up, that's how cookie crumbles sometimes, no one deserves to own a house flat..." but surely it shouldn't be this difficult? I'm looking in the crappest, least glamorous part of outer London, not Hampstead or anything. The prices are going up faster than I can save, and I'm a bloody good saver.

I've spoken to a few lenders and they say they can lend me between £160k and £175k, which would buy me a property of up to around £200k, taking into account stamp duty and other fees. There is hardly anything on the market at this level - there are a number of "in need of TLC" derelict hovels on RightMove, between £150k and £200k. I'd be open to this in my desperation, but I'm doubtful they actually exist, because the estate agents never return my calls or emails about them. Even when I go in to their offices to enquire it's just "sorry, that's not on the market anymore". A lot of the properties at this level specify cash buyers or investors only, which rules me out.

There are a few properties a little above this, around the £210k upwards mark. In my cute naivety, I thought maybe I could look at these and make an offer 10-20% below asking price. Ha. Ha. Dream on. I've been to numerous viewings, all of these are hideous stampede-like open house affairs, where you get 2 minutes to look around. It's mostly young couples struggling to find a home (but probably on 2 incomes so they're more likely to succeed than I am), plus the odd single loser like me, and then an investment buyer turns up knowing they will be able to outbid everyone and offer at least asking price, and make a tidy profit. So I have no hope on these flats, which aren't even that nice.

I've been looking at the Help to Buy Equity Loans but it's all so mysterious, there seem to be hardly any properties around under this scheme, and describing them as "affordable" seems a bit generous to me. There's one down the road from me, but the 1 bed flats start at £350k! It's on a horrible roundabout in a crap part of a crap borough. And the affordability criteria seem to make it impossible for people of average or even slightly above average incomes to afford a very average home. Are they advertised elsewhere? Or are you supposed to just pick any new build and get a Help to Buy loan/mortgage for it? I made an appointment with my bank, which proudly declares they take part in the Help to Buy scheme, but the mortgage advisor did not have a single clue about it, I seemed to know more than she did. She had to look it up on the computer as she didn't believe that they offered such a scheme, even though I told her I was reading it on their website that very morning. The Help to Buy website is hopeless, it doesn't actually give any helpful, practical information.

I've thought about shared ownership, even though it seems like a massive rip off. But even then I sometimes don't even meet the income thresholds. I've contacted Housing Associations in my borough about new builds but I'm low on the priority list, understandably.

I honestly thought I'd be able to buy a house at 32, given that I've been nothing but sensible and taught myself about the market and followed all advice. I thought I had done all the right things but I am royally screwed. Lord knows what I will do if I ever want a family, there's no chance I can afford anywhere suitable for a child.

I have no hope, right? Should I give up and blow my deposit at the bingo or something?

I suppose I'm just wondering if anyone has any stories of eternal perseverance finally paying off!

*everyone has their reasons for wanting to live in a particular area. Mine are mainly: I'm having long term counselling and probably won't survive without it, and my mental state will deteriorate if I have to go through the mill of trying to find a new one. I'm not going to be able to move on from some of the issues that caused my problems by staying in my family home (I'm living in the house I was abused in, for one). Plus, I have a stable, good job (the salary is ok if not stellar, but the pension and other benefits are very, very good. Plus I like my work and colleagues, and don't think I can cope with the upheaval of looking for a new job and establishing myself elsewhere at the moment, especially as I will have no partner, no family and no friends around).

I'm not in this position, being quite old and lucky enough (and with my husband) to have bought and sold in London a couple of times at the right time...

But a very good friend is (you could almost be her), and it's been terrible for her too. She's in about the same market sector as you (maybe £10k higher) and has lost out on five properties in six weeks where they have gone to "best and final offer" after open days. It's miserable and really depressing... I hope things get better soon and wish I had better advice. It's a fucking jungle out there.

Could you not get a lot of cheap small flyers made up stating you are a buyer interested in this area up to (whatever price) with your number on?

If someone is thinking of buying it could give them a push and you could be the first to know.

Oh I meant post them by the way

Yeah i agree croydon is ok, it's not far from me and think it will only get better. I like it's down to earthness. It's sad that that people are getting pushed out from there when it's been one of the few more afford places without a monster commute into centre

*its down to earthness

You've had lots of lovely support and advice on here which is great. But you do come across(understandably) as though you feel like you deserve a lovely house. And that you deserve it because you are a saver. There's nothing inherently morally great about saving - this attitude annoys me. You could be hit by a bus tomorrow, and also saving has made little sense for years. But that's my gripe really. Anyway Orpington is fine, we bought our first house there using a shared ownership deal - plenty under £200k to be found within commutable distance to London, you just need to crack on and stop thinking about what you 'deserve' because no one deserves anything they don't go out and get. And it's called a housing ladder for a reason - it doesn't have to be your forever home but if you can buy something then it will be a step on to the ladder - and a positive step for your emotional wellbeing too.

not at all Coastingit - everything I have said is with the caveats in my first post - I know that no one deserves to own a flat and I said as much. I was just wondering if, having done the right thing, I should completely give up on the idea.

• give up on the idea and start considering things exactly like Shared Ownership, which no one I know has had to resort to, hence me posting on the internet to get opinions from people who might know about these things for a real life insight, rather than government marketing.

I have only moaned about things when people like my friends and relatives say it's my fault for not taking risks, when they didn't take risks at all, they just got lucky. I hate the game, not the players, unless the players start being smug bastards about it.

Also, I haven't really been able to consider SO until now. For years, the places near me say the minimum single person income to be eligible is £35,000 or so, a salary which I have only reached in the last 6 months after a promotion. So I have always looked at it but it was still out of reach. Many of the other ones I look at have certain criteria like having to be a key worker, having to live in the borough etc, so options were limited. I posted here to get some more insight into whether there was more to it than this, not because I think I deserve a house because I have saved.

Well I don't agree that saving was necessarily 'doing the right thing' so horses for courses.

Just crack on and don't be so risk averse I guess. You sound irritated with people who have, as you perceive it, struck lucky.

I am fairly impetuous and take risks left right and centre. But the result is that I have an interesting life (with tragedy, I'm not immune to that) but I guess my own experience of horrible things had made me very much want to live life in the moment and do stuff right now this minute, now or never sort of thing. But I have a relative who can't hide her resentment of me. She sees me as someone who always lands on her feet and who is selfish and thoughtless. Which hurts because I feel the right thing to do is to do as much as possible right now. Not very well phrased but your attitude stings me because it is like my relative - who I just want to give a shake and tell her to change job, buy a house, get pregnant... just effing do it now because you might never get the chance again. Don't judge risk takers as being people who don't care about the consequences of their actions - for me it is fear of the consequences of NOT acting that galvanises me.

Long story short - just buy somewhere and have belief in your strength to deal with it. You will heal sooner.

Also I note you said "we" - I'd hazard a guess that I would have been able to buy somewhere, SO or otherwise if I had someone else to buy with. And I've already said I'm not looking for a palatial, 4 bedroom forever home, I am looking for the most basic of 1 bed flats.

I generally think fair enough to people who struck it lucky, we're all lucky in different ways. I only get irritated when they start getting all arrogant and smug at me about it, and mock my own efforts, which happens a lot. And then they call you bitter when you point out that they didn't exactly get to where they are on merit either. I have no problem with lucky people, it's only the smug ones that annoy me. The people that have done this aren't even risk takers - I admire people who take risks, but I have not been able to take a big financial risk thus far, and am now at a crossroads with everything - my money, my therapy, my job... so I'm posting openly on the internet about it to get more ideas.

Do your sums wisely if you do decide to go for SO. It's often the resort of people who don't have much of a deposit; you aren't in that position so I'd avoid it if you can. Not only does it work out extremely expensively quite often, but also you're very limited on the lenders you can use, which makes your mortgage options less competitive. Buying a flat you also need to take into consideration service charges which are often recharged by the HA with less information and sometimes a handling fee added on. Be wary, is all I would say!

"I only get irritated when they start getting all arrogant and smug at me about it, and mock my own efforts, which happens a lot."

You need new friends then OP! Stop hanging out with the arrogant ones who mock you!

I would buy and let outside London, and then rent in London
Or commute into London
Rugby or market Harborough in east mids are less than an hour, and you'd get plenty of choices of flat or house at £150k, season ticket approx £4K annually

It is extremely difficult to get a BTL mortgage now if you don't also own the property you live in. A great shame as I know some people who successfully did did exactly what you suggest a few years back NewBalls. But a London-tied friend her 30s tried it last year and got nowhere, as did one of our nieces the year before that.

AnotherEmma, yes I'm definitely ditching rubbish non-friends! (smug family is harder though, but even then I am stepping away and preferring to spend time alone than with them putting me down). I also have good friends who are not in the least bit arrogant and smug and I am pleased to see them doing well, as that's what friends do. They recognise that not every situation is the same. Likewise, I recognise that I have talents and luck that they might not, (my crap is the housing market, but I'd take that any day over serious illness, or watching a parent die, or similar crap which some of my friends are going through). But I'm in no way thinking I deserve to walk into a nice house in Pimlico and resenting those with the balls to take risks, like a previous poster insinuated- I have simply tried to have a sense of humour about a slightly frustrating, though not devastating, situation. But the main point of the thread was to get some ideas to clarify my avenues, which I'm grateful for many of you for giving.

Anyway, back to property... NewBalls, StrawberryTeaLeaf is right. Lending is strict these days, it would be impossible for me to get a BTL mortgage.

Try Staines, chertsey, sunbury, Ashford. They are good areas, not grotty, and with access to green field. You probably won't get a house as houses are more expensive and popular with families, but the flats will be affordable. The downside is only staines is on fast trainline into London.

Oh and the flats will be very good size and quality.

Thanks desi, I'll look at those. I'm used to slow trains, so that's fine!

Whatever you do, do it fast. London is so crazy and in 6 months you'll find the same area is £30k more... Get a mortgage sorted quickly before the rates rise.... Some lenders are already raising them.
Buy a property that needs work. If you can't afford to do the work straight away so be it - it's important to be able to add value to your first purchase. Buy near a station. Don't compromise on length of lease or condition of main building but be prepared to compromise on things you can change like kitchen and bathroom and decoration. That's my advice anyway! They say buy the worst flat in the best area you can afford! But don't buy a place that is structurally wobbly or has a crack den next door!

Areas wise go and do your research. Drive around areas you've heard about or visit them on public transport. If you do your research you'll be ready to dive in when you see something of good value. Look for good transport links and green spaces. Good solid Edwardian and Victorian conversions seem to gain value quicker than new homes but location is probably a better priority.

Have you been to see a broker? Ask friends for recommendations. See someone independent. The fee should be around £250 for someone who searches the whole of the market, or free if they are working on commission.

What are Thornton Heath and South Norwood like? There are a few places there that are within your budget.

Thanks Acer, I'm lookinh for a broker and will book an appointment for when I have some leave soon (I've only spoken to banks and London and Country).

Thornton Heath (or Thornton Heath Village as some estate agents have started calling it) pretty grim and doesn't show signs of regeneration like central Croydon does. But I really don't care about that - I've lived in an equally grim area not far away so I'm used to it, I just want my own space, I don't care whether the neighbourhood is glamorous or smart or trendy or exciting if I can't afford that - I'm used to having to travel into town for those things and am happy to continue doing so.

I've enquired about all the properties within my budget in South Norwood, Thornton Heath, Addington (that has the problem of being miles from a train line but I am happy to compromise on that if need be), etc. But I, and every other FTB in the are is suffering from the same problems described by RedRosie at 19:55 yesterday. I've chatted to other people at viewings (some couples with dual income and they're still struggling), we're looking at the grottiest properties in the grottiest areas but theyre snapped up by investors, then we see the same flats to let for £800+ pcm a couple of weeks later, the landlords don't even have to do any work to them.

There are a few places that are really grotty, have been on the market for ages, and well within my budget in Thornton Heath, Selhurst, Norwood etc - again I am totally willing to go for these. But either they are cash buyers only, investors only, or the estate agents tell me that they're not actually available (take them off Right Move then, you tools). Or my enquiries are ignored. So I don't know if such flats actually exist, even though they are advertised. I'm not sure if I should sit tight and it's just a case of right place right time, as surely some of the advertised properties that are in my budget do exist (though I've been looking a year or so, and some fellow house hunters I chat to at viewings even longer), or if I have to knock the idea on the head.

Please do a right move search 3 mile radius of Sidcup
There are lots of one bed flats in Bromley and Sidcup areas. Nice ones.
They'd have maintenance charges as they are blocks.
There are two beds but they tend to be low lease maisonettes in Sidcup or in an Area called Albany Park which is an old fashioned council estate but with great train links to LB and CX.
Try Orpington too, depending where you are now S London, some trains go Orpington to Peckham Dulwich area so that may help your counselling.

If you want help on this area once you find something then drop me a line

Good luck

Croydon I see (caught up the thread).
There are buses from New Addington to New Eltham. Someone posted a lovely flat earlier in NE, but that one is an old style Housing assoc estate. Please do come and look around.

Nice flat though! And actually, in catchment for a good school

I think the reason the cash o it thing is happening is because of the age of the properties and the lease. They are built in 60's and 70's and down to 50 year leases. So you wouldn't get. Mortgage for them. That's also why they seem 'cheap'

I add to a PP. get on with it. Prices continue to rise - £60k on my house in 12 months. Just stupid.

I've estate agents in family. Buy in February/March. Get on the bus, get researching new areas, get a mortgage offer in place at max value and go for it.