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Anyone starting an extension imminently?

799 replies

Karcheer · 30/09/2015 18:38

Ours has been a long time coming, planning permission was granted 18months ago, but our builders finally start on Tuesday.
Would be great to have some build buddies Grin

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lostlalaloopsy · 31/01/2016 09:54

We have just put our plans in!! We are planning a double storey extension - adding a 4th bedroom and extending kitchen/diner to add a family room. Then we will doing internal work re extending bathroom but that can wait!

I have a couple of builders round for quotes already. The garden at back has a really large slope which we need to dig out and add a retaining wall which is going to mean more money!

Anyone got any tips for someone who is just starting?

Karcheer · 31/01/2016 10:29

gnome this bit is a Dutch roof, but I'm hoping the tiling of it isn't that hard famous last words

The biggest change for us now will be this metal structure over the garage/carport, but I think this won't be for about two weeks.

lost just make sure you find builders you trust and can talk to. They'll be pretty much moving in with you, I spend time and talk to the main contractor far more than I do my husband at the moment. You will have to have hard conversations and you must feel that you can. It's not all about the cheapest or the quickest. We are using a very small team, and will probably take much, much longer than a bigger team, but even though we've had loads of delays I still can talk to them.
We've retaining walls for part of our garden, I went with quite a wide pathway between it and the house and I'm glad I did.

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Thistledew · 31/01/2016 10:40

Hi - I'm a bit late to the party and haven't had time to rtft, but I could do with some advice from anyone who is further down the line/ has tackled the same problem.

We are just over half way through a significant project- dormer conversion to the loft, demolition of old kitchen and bathroom extension and rebuild of these and internal remodelling by moving the staircase as well as adding a new one. We have a budget of just over 100k.

We are generally happy with our builders, who gave us a fixed price quote. They are pretty friendly and happy to engage, and work is progressing according to schedule.

The only problem is that we seem to be getting a little flurry of 'change note' invoices, which are asking for more money whenever something has to be done that was not on the original scope of works.

Some things have been inevitable- when it was found that the chimney was crumbling and had to be taken down and rebuilt, and when a steel had to be raised to accommodate the stairs. We were happy to pay for this additional work.

However, we are now coming up for first fix stage, and I have been presented with two 'change notes' in respect of minor tweaks I have requested to the plumbing and electrical scope.

The plumbing one was for the reinstatement of the outside tap. I requested this on my original specification list and discussed it with the plumber when he came initially to price up, but I made a mistake in that I failed to notice it had been omitted from the list of tasks under plumbing on the scope of works we agreed.

In relation to the electrics, this contained some minor amendment such as one additional double socket in the dining room, reinstatement of a double socket on a stud wall that had to be replaced and additional lighting inside a new cupboard. Amazingly, despite making the specific request in my specification list for 3 pendant lights on the landing (which will get no natural light), no provision was made for any lighting in the original scope of works. For this, they want to charge an additional £550! Obviously, at this point it is clear to me that they are taking the piss, and I have written a firmly worded email to say that these items should have been included in the original scope of works and/or can be offset against 4 other things that are in the scope but which I no longer require.

What I could use advice on is how to handle refusing the requests for extra payment without souring the relationship we have with the builder. Has anyone else had to do similar, and of so, how did it resolve? We will have at least one other issue to deal with - in order to accommodate a portaloo they had to demolish the wall in front of our house. They now want to charge us to reinstate the wall at the end of the project!

GnomeDePlume · 31/01/2016 12:26

lostlalaloopsy get yourself informed and ask people who quote to explain terms you dot understand. There are some good books out there. do a good one [[http://www.amazon.co.uk/Home-Extension-Manual-Step---Step/dp/0857338161/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1454242950&sr=1-1&keywords=how+to+build+an+extension]]

Beware of people who try to baffle you with 'technical' terms. One of the builders who quoted tried to do this. Fortunately DH worked in the trade. I may have misheard but I think that DH described him as a 'banker'.

GnomeDePlume · 31/01/2016 12:27

sorry about the link!

GnomeDePlume · 31/01/2016 13:27

I asked DH about your question Thistledew. DH used to be an electrician.

You have been quoted £550 for:

  • 2 double sockets
  • 3 ceiling lights
  • 1 cupboard light

I am assuming that the socket in the stud wall is effectively new.

The material cost is pretty low but there may well be a fair bit of labour involved as well as replaning of circuits. £550 is high but it will depend on where you live whether it is excessive.

I know it is annoying but it is quite possible that the builder is not trying it on at all. I know I have worked through quotes with DH, detailing room by room what was in the job. I'm afraid it is possible to miss something which may seem obvious to the client.

IMO put it down to experience and read through the specs in detail.

Sorry! Probably not what you wanted to read.

AesopsMables · 31/01/2016 13:56

Thistledew I share your pain.

We are at the same stage as you and going round the house changing/adding sockets and switches is a costly exercise we have discovered. The pricing they have charged you is high but not excessive.

Would suggest you have a straight conversation and ask your builder to give you a quote for EVERY single change to spec they encounter prior to carrying out the work, even if it is verbal you should follow it up quickly in writing. That way you will not get any further 'surprises'.

Managing spec stages and payments is a job in itself.

Thistledew · 31/01/2016 13:57

Thanks Gnome. One of the double sockets is a reinstatement of a socket that was already there. The wiring must still be in place even if the builders chucked the old socket and plate. The other double socket will be sited in the same stud wall but on the other side and only about 1.5 meters away. In any event, I removed two other new double sockets from scope elsewhere, as well as two pendant lights and two sets of wiring for supply to bathroom cabinets.

The three pendants on the landing I had already requested- and I think it is the builder's error for apparently making no provision to light this at all! The rewiring is extensive. There are no ceilings or floors to the rooms that are to be fitted and removing the old wiring and starting from scratch is already in scope.

I am quite happy that they are taking the piss- my question is how to best handle it without souring relations.

Madblondedog · 31/01/2016 16:13

Hi all, hope everyone is doing well today.

I've spent the day trying to clear the mess created on Friday, I'm so fed up of it now. Fecking Dyson has decided it hates me and packed up, bought a wet and dry DIY one and it hates carpet

Very much ready to collapse and I've had enough before we've even started the next extension

GnomeDePlume · 31/01/2016 18:06

Thistledew, the problem is that variation costs. Adding or subtracting from a circuit is a change. Taking sockets out may be changing the route of the circuit. Reinstating a socket isnt going to be as simple as slapping a new front on. The electrician may not want or be able to use the previous cable. Whatever, reinstating the socket even if the cable can be used will require testing the whole of that circuit.

You asked for ABCDXQYRZ. They quoted for ABCDQYRZ, you agreed. You have now said you want ABDXQYZ. I dont see a way in which you can demand that the builder do it for nothing without souring the relationship.

Sorry, I know you are cross.

Madblondedog · 01/02/2016 09:28

Unfortunately Thistle the more I learn about electrics the more I learn a "simple" change isn't always as simple as it seems.

The only thing I have learnt from our experience is get a price from your builder before agreeing any changes. I will often say "if it is less than X lets do it", then if its a little more when he's checked it out he will come say so and then I can make a decision.

GnomeDePlume · 01/02/2016 12:13

the more I learn about electrics the more I learn a "simple" change isn't always as simple as it seems

you have put succinctly what I was trying to say.

We have a simple extension but even in that the electrics currently look like spaghetti junction and have involved extending the ring out from the master bedroom. A kitchen would have required a whole new circuit. A new electric shower the same plus cable the thickness of a roll of carpet (and about as flexible.

Modern electrics are not straightforward. When DH was a trading electrician this was the bane of his life and ultimately why he stopped trading. Mrs Smith wants a new socket so that she can plug her radio in. Unfortunately to do this DH would have had to upgrade the whole circuit to Part P standard. 9 times out of 10 he would end up recommending that Mrs Smith just run an extension cable in. A total rewire is far more straightforward.

AesopsMables · 01/02/2016 19:21

I have spent the most exasperating 2 hours today with our spark.

Adding a few things here or there is not easy and as I mentioned up thread, not cheap.

Front light changing (built into spec and quote)now it seems is not so simple. 15year old front lantern we discover is fitted to 120 year old lead wire. Stopped working about 6 months ago so we thought we would add it to spec. Instead of £53.00 now going to be £180.00+VAT.

5 x LED lights to run over soffit above bi-folds not in spec, thought this would be 5 x £53.00 extra. Nope. Due to additional wiring, circuits, transformer or whatever. £400.00 + VAT.

The list goes on and on and on .....

Going to pin down my contractor on price for everything 'extra' they attempt to do now and already it is holding up build as I am away all tomorrow.

That was all that was achieved today here apart from 1st fixing all my sockets to new room.

AesopsMables · 01/02/2016 19:25

Oh and DH is away on a jolly at a conference until Wednesday so yet again I am picking it all up.

Decided to take some of the 'extras' budget and treat myself to a day spa on Saturday. My skin/feet and hair all very rough and dry combined with the knots in my back and neck I think I bloody deserve it.

Karcheer · 01/02/2016 20:45

I've the burglar alarm company coming tomorrow to quote for a new system.
Things are so slow at the moment, I can't wait till we get the rest of the steels.

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AesopsMables · 01/02/2016 20:57

Hadn't even thought about a burglar alarm. S'pose should look at that also.

Karcheer do you have date for steels yet?

Karcheer · 01/02/2016 21:07

Well... The design was finally signed off on Friday, the actual metal was ordered before that. Builder reckoned a week from Friday... But who knows!

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Madblondedog · 01/02/2016 21:42

Burglar alarm....better add that to the list of things I've forgotten

GnomeDePlume · 03/02/2016 07:23

Ceiling is now plasterboarded and first fix of the electrics is complete. Because the new room is away from the front door, telephone point, Sky input etc we are having to include these in the new electrics.

Madblondedog · 03/02/2016 07:31

Sounds good gnome

Can I ask some dumb questions. ...

  1. who can do phone points? An electrician?

  2. If we make the next extension smaller would it have to go back in for planning permission?

McBaby · 03/02/2016 07:38

Final cost going on the woodwork today and tomorrow in the loft so we can move in at the weekend :)
The we start digging the side foundations for the sidez

GnomeDePlume · 03/02/2016 12:45

Madblondedog I can check with DH but I am almost certain that phone is not covered by building regs so anyone can do this.

Re planning, I would phone the duty planning officer. It is on a 'no names, no pack drill' basis. However I suspect that you would need to go back as the planning permission is for the original design.

Madblondedog · 03/02/2016 14:45

Just spoke to the builder, he said it would be OK but I will call and double check (hoping he'd know though)

Thanks Gnome, I want to get rid of some points as they are all off one and look crap (not chased in or anything)

Karcheer · 03/02/2016 17:29

I think you'd need to go back to planning.

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Madblondedog · 04/02/2016 17:14

Hmmm will give them a call to make sure