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Original poster

Can anybody help with some impartial advice on solar panels? Please?

69 replies

PacificDogwood · 27/03/2015 18:01

I have now sat through to sales people's pitches.
If I never have to hear the word 'warranty' and 'feed in tarrif' again, it'll be soon enough.

What I would like is some technical date, what make of solar panels to they use, where do they come from, what it their output, how much do they degrade over time etc etc?
All I got was sales waffle and promises of a 'cash back' card and £250 if I recommended them to my friends and family. Oh, and that it would cost £10.000, but for me, me being special an'all, they could do it for £8.000 and if we paid outright for £6.999. But if I wanted to discuss it with my husband first, that was fine

I have some questions about fitting the frames to our lead-covered flat roof and how that can remain waterproof once they drill great big holes in to my roof.
I would like to know that those 'buckets' are all about - no drilling, but ballast required to held them down. What's that all about? Does that actually work and does not get air-born in 60mph winds as we get them here from time to time??

I would really love to hear from somebody with a bit of technical or installing knowledge of this. We are 'sold' on the idea of solar panels (mainly to make us less dependent on energy companies, not so much as a 'get rich quick scheme'), but need to decide which company to go with and so far I am NOT filled with confidence.

TIA.

OP posts:

IrianofWay · 31/03/2015 12:38

Aha! Was looking at the figures the company emailed me last night and thought it looked a lot of money for the kw provided. Rang a few local companies and both of them went silent after I told them what I was quoted and then took a deep breath and said DON'T! Seriously overpriced apparently. So they are both coming to give me a more sensible quote next week.

PigletJohn · 31/03/2015 13:42

how many kWp is it?

IrianofWay · 31/03/2015 15:16

1.75! I didn't realise that until they sent me the confirmation email and then alarm bells started ringing.

manechanger · 31/03/2015 15:21

Irian, we have a similar problem. we have limited roof space so in order to get near to 4kwp we need hybrids. I have had two companies in and asked for advice. They gave me different advice, one is a lower powered system with more traditional 240 panels, not so much money but only generating about 2-2.4. The other one is a lot more and generates 3.7 using hybrids. Everything I've read suggests that in my situation hybrids are worthwhile - benQ - but I also want to know about the panasonics. I don't know what to do, looking on line the cost of the panels is around half what I have been quoted (obv no trade discount on my price). So the other half is covering the cost of teh inverter, in roof panels and labour. That seems the wrong proportion to me - does anyone have any idea?

I've gone to a third company and specified what I want this time and asked for a quote soo I can compare.

manechanger · 31/03/2015 15:23

Sorry I meant I have a similar problem in that I need more quotes! That seems a lot. i was quoted between 4.5 and 5.5 for 2-2.4kwp

PigletJohn · 31/03/2015 16:12

I get the impression that today's prices are in the region of £6k to £7k for a 3kWp to 4kWp installation. So paying that much for a significantly smaller one would have a very poor return and would probably not be worth buying. I suppose you have a small roof?

I believe the installers pay a few hundred pounds per panel so a lot of the cost must be in scaffolding and climbing around, running and connecting cables and the inverter, and sales and marketing costs, which will be about the same for a small installation as a large one.

IrianofWay · 31/03/2015 16:14

I must admit I never thought the roof was that small TBH. It's a largish 1930s semi

PigletJohn · 31/03/2015 17:10

I think a 4kWp installation needs about 22 m2 of (preferably) south facing roof. I have less than that due to the shape of the house. You lose a bit round the top, ridge, eaves and edges. I thought 1.75kWp sounded less than usual.

Hipped roofs cut off quite a lot of usable area.

manechanger · 31/03/2015 17:15

We are losing some space because of the apex above the bay might be similar with a thirties house.

manechanger · 31/03/2015 17:22

we have scaffolding in place already which is why i thought this would be a good time to do it. Its still coming in as more than I thought it would. The number of panels that can be fitted actually seems a bit unrealistic... Worried that I'll choose one provider to then find that what he's promised (much more expensive) actually isn't possible.

Original poster

PacificDogwood · 31/03/2015 22:45

You could consider 300W panels? they are still expensive (£580 a pop) but would utilise your space better?

I had a v interesting conversation with an installer who is not going to do our roof (they don't do flat roofs), but who still offered a fair bit of his time .
He stated we should be offered a 'shading chart' of our roof before signing on any dotted line. The shading chart should show how the sun moves across our roof in different seasons and take in to account chimney pots and satellite dishes etc that may shade even just part of one panel as that will affect the performance of the whole 'string' (all panels connected in series and feeding one inverter).

It is a minefield…

Now that we know for sure we are missing the 1.4.15 cut-off for the old panel, we have rather relaxed a lot and will make sure we do all our homework properly before committing.

More quotes awaited here.

Oh and yes, we were quoted £6.000 and £5.800 for 16x250W panels or 15x265W panels respectively, giving 4kWh or just under return.

OP posts:

unlucky83 · 01/04/2015 00:04

Mine was just over £6 k for the gallium (16 x 250w panels) - and it is a split system cos east/west - which is more expensive.
And needed scaffolding etc
(My installers had their own tower - an industrial tower for a domestic sized property costs about £1.5k, takes less than 30 mins to build - once it is paid for it actually isn't costing them much per job)
I don't think it is a coincidence that wherever you are in the country it costs about the same.
I ranted on another thread about this - I think the way the government has set up the system is completely wrong.

When I first thought about solar panels - so about 8 yrs ago - they were £15-20k but the feed in tariff was much higher. Using that over 20 yrs you got your money back plus a bit. Now the FIT is much lower, installation has come right down. The installers say cos the panels are now mass produced etc so are cheaper -but I'm not sure how much cheaper they actually are ...or whether the installation cost (and in fact panel prices) are aimed at how much you will get back through FIT and so whether it is worth your while doing it ... how much of a 'cut' of the FIT the installers can get away with taking. I think free /heavily subsidised panels and no FIT would have been the best way forward.
(Same with RHI payments - I have and am still looking at solar thermal panels...I would save approx £90 per year on heating water costs. But I would get RHI for 7yrs - which (when I last looked) wasn't quite enough (a few hundred short) of the £5k I've been quoted for fitting ....but if you look at DIY solar thermal you can get a kit for £1-2k and people do it for much less -but you won't get RHI. So even saving £100 a year it would take 20 yrs to get your money back.

But does it really cost £3k to fit/insure/register or is that just the figure the installers can get away with charging...because of the RHI payments? Same with a pellet boiler - was told I could get one fitted, 7yrs of RHI would pay for it and I would make money - then at the end I could rip it out if the gas prices made that make sense and go back to a 'normal' boiler...)

IrianofWay · 01/04/2015 11:02

One of the things wrong with our quote apparently was that it included 7 microinverters - brilliant little things apparently if you have a problem with partial shade - we don't ! So that was a massive cost that we simply didn't need.

manechanger · 01/04/2015 17:05

mine also includes microinverters and in roof fixings and still comes in at a max of 5.5 for 2kwp.

Original poster

PacificDogwood · 02/04/2015 21:34

Ok, this afternoon I've had the most interesting and instructive conversation with a solar installer we found via Heat my Home - I think I've linked to it upthread?

The man knew his stuff, spent time with us even though his company is not going to be able to do our job AND did not give unrealistic projections of what we, in our location, might achieve. Amazing. We have more stuff to think about, but I feel better equipped to even ask the right questions.

His advice was:

go for a panel that is used commercially, he rated REC, LG and Samsung highly
go for a company run by electricians or people with a technical background, not based on sales or who also run tanning salons SolarKing
Do not allow anybody to screw anything in to your flat roof
spend the money on an indedepent engineer's report to see whether our roof can take the weight of the 'buckets' with ballast
get an EMMA/Immerson type device that 'harvests' the left over energy to heat your water (in the summer) to reduce your gas bill
micro inverters are worth the money if you are in it for the long run and have any shading over your roof
there is some evidence that South-Westerly panels give more electricity that will actually be used because your yield in the pm will be higher when you are more likely to be at home and actually use the energy you are making.

All food for thought.

AND - his daughter is a MNer
I loved your dad - what a font of knowledge.

OP posts:

TalkinPeace · 02/04/2015 21:37

WOW

That is a fantastic information set
I love the idea of using spare electric to top up thermal stores

manechanger · 03/04/2015 20:30

Thanks for posting. That's interesting. I have decided to go for the mid range quote but have also asked that company to requote using the products another company offered so I can check like for like.

I think I'm going for LG300w panels (prob only 8 but lovely if i could get 10). They quoted for microinverters but i was wavering, have two roofs they will go on and I wondered if I could save by getting a 2 string inverter, now I think I'll stick with the microinverters.

I have to say that of the two i invited round i havent had any problems with the selling process. The company ive chosen definitely sent a salesman round but the first thing he did was send round the fitters to look at my (not built yet) roof. They were great and I got a real sense that I would be able to get a good job from them.

I think the other company may have an unrealistic picture of how many panels i might fit on and were more expensive, they are reluctant to explain what inverters they will use - therefore quote may rise even more so I feel like i don't have the full picture from them so difficult to use them.

IrianofWay · 10/04/2015 14:23

New quote of 6100 for 4kw or 7600 for 3.95 kw with more efficient panels. All costs included. It will cost us approx another 200 for a switch to move the excess electricity to heat our hot water but when he came round we couldn't find the hot water tank! Even if we don't have that added now it can be retrofitted. Chap is a heating engineer not a salesman.

Onecurrantbun · 14/04/2015 20:36

We've had a quote from a local firm for £6k for a 3.99 kw system. The previous quote was £9k for a "one time only price" due to a "salesman being in our area".... certainly sort shopping around! Ours is a split array of 14 monocrystalline 285 panels. We plan to be here 10 years and I'm at hlme all day so hopefully can use the electricity ourselves!

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