Ok, so the vendors are taking pretty much everything with them...what next?!

[Sarahlouboo]

Three weeks before the agreed completion date, after chasing the vendors for the fixtures and fittings, they decided to exclude pretty much everything including the integrated appliances (which were advertised in the brochure), fitted carpets and fireplace and surround. I know they are completely in their rights to do this (well I didn't but I do now ) but it came as a shock and, obviously, an unwelcome additional expense at a time when money is already tight. To add insult to injury they are dragging their heels and taking ages to respond to any communication. They have made it clear that they will take everything out if we don't agree to pay for it. They are unlikely to have any need for the fitted carpets etc. as they are emigrating to Canada but we have offered them an amount and we are waiting to hear back. I am not hopeful that they will accept our offer as it substantially below what they were asking but it is all we can afford. In which case we are going to proceed with the sale but just replace everything as new. Better we think than having to pay for 4 year old appliances (they want £200 for a 4 year old fridge freezer!). So...has this happened to anyone else? Did the vendors follow through with their threats? Do you think it is a good idea to ask for a pre-completion inspection? I am dreading what we will be walking into. Bare floors in January with children is not what I was hoping to achieve when we set out to buy this house!!

Of course something dodgy is going on, why aren't they desperate to exchange if they are emigrating shortly?!

Is it possible that the emigration has fallen through - or maybe they've called it off due to health/relationship difficulties, but rather than be upfront, they want someone else to be "the bad guy"?
Is it possible that they will be liable for more costs if they pull out then if someone else does?

The seller's stance on the F&F list suggests they may be short of funds and/or downright awkward. They will be more difficult to sue for anything missing or damaged if they have emigrated and in fact might not be worth suing if they don't have the funds. Our seller left us with no carpets, no light fittings in the downstairs reception rooms and a skip's worth of crap in the garage, cellar and garden. We knew he was desperate to get his money out and our additional costs added up to roughly what we'd chipped off the price after the survey flagged up an issue. We decided it was better to let it go and get on with sorting the place out to our tastes.

Beinghere - I think you win the prize for the most wilfully and determined penny pinchers!

PeruvianFoodLover - I can't think that they would be any worse off if they are the first to pull out. We haven't exchanged yet so it wouldn't be a breach of contract. Not that I am sure that actually means anything!

I'd pull out, they're funny fuckers.

How do you know they're even emigrating? You've already bent over backwards for them & this is how they repay you.

OP, I really feel for you and would be inclined to reduce my offer on the property based on having assumed at the time of offering that those items were included.....

We completed on our latest sale and purchase in December and had a few hairy moments where we weren't exactly sure what was included with our purchase. The vendor had moved out to his new house a year or so ago and the house was empty, but when we viewed (150 miles from our then home) the Aga was on and the house was toasty. We were shown over by the EA who insisted the Aga was included - as you'd assume - but the printed blurb/RM details said that it was available by separate negotiation.

The fixtures and contents form omitted to mention it altogether (but as English wasn't the vendor's first language, some of his answers were a little indecipherable) and despite our solicitor requesting confirmation several times that it was to stay, the vendor's solicitor was reticent in responding.....right up till a couple of days prior to exchange, when he finally confirmed that it was included.....grrrr!

We couldn't imagine someone - especially a guy that had bought himself a new pad for close on £2m - would be arsed to remove an Aga, but you never know.

Imagine our surprise though, when the day before completion our solicitor called to say the vendor had realised the (free-standing) washing machine was no longer working and was offering us £350 for a new one.......when we were actually taking our own with us anyway - which we didn't mention of course!

He obviously realised he'd included the washing machine on the F&C form and that we'd be expecting it to work.....so there are some nice, honest people around still after all!

On reflection, as the OP's vendors are emigrating, I'd be seriously inclined to call their bluff as the chance of them taking those items overseas is pretty unlikely imho......

Ok so it turns out their solicitor is on holiday so who knows if our offer has even been passed on! But, regardless, if they were in a hurry, they could just speak to us via the estate agents surely?!

Fluffycloudland77 - I agree but a small part of me is still holding on to the hope that they will accept and sign and this will all be a bad dream in two weeks time!

Of course something dodgy is going on, why aren't they desperate to exchange if they are emigrating shortly?!

This is your answer surely? No exchange within 3 weeks of completion is a HUGE klaxon that things are not what they say they are. Your solicitor should write to theirs, copy to the estate agents, saying that if exchange does not happen by x then you will withdraw. Their reaction to that will show you if they are serious / able to move

I just feel bad as our buyers have been ready to move in since the beginning of December and we have made them wait as we weren't willing to try and find somewhere to live for 6 weeks. I feel some obligation to try and keep it going for them and I am absolutely dreading telling them.

House buying and selling is no place for these emotions! You are not in any way obliged to these people until you exchange. It's a harsh reality of this ridiculous system we have.

Raphaella - a nice story finally! Yes I don't think they would take them with them but I do think they would be spiteful enough to take them out and dump them. They have stated very clearly in their last email that the fireplace and fire would be removed (we are not bothered, it was hideous - ha!). They used a lot of capital letters e.g. the fire would NOT be included just in case we were under any illusions .

Homebythesea - it is a ridiculous system isn't it? I said to my DH, we hate everyone and everyone hates us . You are right, the lack of exchange is more worrying than the arguments over f & f but I guess I assumed that they were using that as a way of getting us to cough up. The thing is, all along they have been a bit clueless/dodgy. They asked the estate agent to advertise it as a vacant possession, then said they weren't moving till Jan. They included then excluded the appliances. They said they didn't know how to fill in the Property Information Form (when asked why it was taking so long to return). So I thought we were dealing with incompetence rather than nasty/dodgy people...

Are you sure going into rented isn't an option? We initially thought the same but it has worked out well for us.

Years ago an estate agent friend of ours said that given that buying a house and selling a house are each such huge transactions, financially and emotionally, that they should be viewed separately. If you can make them coincide fine, but it may work out better if you can separate the two.

Yes, there is an additional cost and hassle in moving twice but you would be chain free for your purchase and should be in a better negotiating position.

Just a thought. Good luck, whatever you decide.

trufflethewuffle - it would give us back some degree of control but we would have to pay an early redemption figure on our mortgage of about £4,000 if we didn't find another property/re-mortgage within a fairly tight time frame. It is so hard weighing up the pros and cons.

Whatever is going on, one or both of the vendors are behaving in a way that suggests emotions are running high. If one of them is not keen to move then perhaps that's why they're behaving this way, like the boyfriend who wants you to dump him. So I'd consider them as the truculent "if I can't have it neither can you" bleach on the carpet type, rather than the "we're so happy about our new life" leaving the carpets behind type.

Either way, why not look elsewhere, warn your buyers why you've not exchanged with them (have you?) and find out if they'd be willing to wait. You never know though, at this time of year there could be other sellers looking for a buyer who can move quickly...

the thing is, if you buy with usch a bad vice, and constantly finding awful things (fireplace removed, fire alarms removed? lightbulbs? carpet destroyed/ripped out? taps removed? Doorhandles removed?whatever the fuck next etc.) it puts a big shadow over your home. Tis would be your HOME that they tried to fuck up for you. As they are greedy and unreliable.

You are WAY to reasonable, saying they hate you, you hate them, what a system. NO. It's not the system, it is not you.

It is them.

Buyer beware.

Please tell me that you have started looking at other properties. Please.

argh, typos galore:

if you buy with such a bad vibe....

We did the selling house going into rented as couldn't find anything to buy thing.
Then DH got made redundant and it all went downhill. Still in rented four years later and we hate it.
It's still a risk

Chandon - that nearly made me cry (in a good way!). Yes we are looking, have always kept an eye out but nothing in the area that is suitable...will keep looking though!

We haven't exchanged with the buyers thank god. I think they would pull out if we can't complete this month (they said they would) but there is nothing we can do about that.

Would you get the early redemption penalty back if you reborrowed from that lender within 90 days? The 6 month rental might still be worth considering.

We took a tatty rental in September for 6 months. Our sale completed Tuesday and we are hopeful that our purchase will complete in early February. That way we can get decorating and carpeting done in the new one before we move in.

From what you say about your vendors they sound trouble.

Is there nothing the estate agent has on the books that you could view? Just a thought if you start to visibly look elsewhere it might put a rocket up them????
Id be actively looking elsewhere now.

You can always agree to come to an agreement about the carpets etc but as cash only. Then you can proceed with the sale, exchange etc, and keep them dangling about the carpets until the last minute - then say how much you will finally pay when it is too late for the vendors to remove them (day before completion, let's say). That puts you in a better negotiating position.

our vendors did this in our first house, we refused to pay their extornion prices, they even took the light bulbs, i bet it all ended up in a skip

There should be reviews left for house vendors, in ebay style, so that its on record wether people are honourable or not.

You seem to have misunderstood the term Vacant Possession . All that means is that it will be vacant on completion, ie. No sitting tenants, not that the property is already vacant. There must be another solicitor handling the caseload of the one who is away.

I can't quite believe thye are allowed to do it. But you're right they are. In Scotland if it's basically screwed down you can't take it.
They are taking the piss and honestly don't sound like committed buyers. They may be stalling for time because their emigration is being put back a bit and don't want to move just yet. I would take their list, work out how much it would cost you to replace or put right their extractions and then present them with a lower offer on the house based on that.
The £4000 early redemption fee will probably look like peanuts by the time they have stripped the house. Integrated appliances alone are expensive and that's not including the damage they'll do if they don't remove it carefully.

If they are elderly they might have health complaints that make emigrating difficult because the new country don't want you being a drain on their system.

You've been very tolerant with them.