Is my estate agent allowed to do this?

[kettleoffish]

We moved in 4 months ago on a 6 month lease. Soon after moving in, we were sent a list of charges. Well I was surprised at first at what I read. In all my 12 years of renting with different agents around the country from moving about quite often, I've never met an agent who charges us £60 for extending the lease for another 6 months, or charging £75 for extending the lease to a 1-month running lease after our 6 mth lease is up.

The house has problems. The lounge window had a 2 inch crack on the bottom left corner which was never fixed. The agent had a builder come in to look but then after he went away, we never heard from him again. Now the crack has grown to a 8 inch crack.

And now, this is another first for me as well, but the agent sent us a letter at the beginning of October to ask us to tell them "soon as possible" if we are moving out of the house or not. Well I do want to move as this home is too small for us but we took it at first because it was the only house for rent in the area we wanted at first. But since letting agents often want people to move in within a month after putting down a deposit, we are still in the process of viewing new homes but didn't think we should pledge to move in any properties yet until November. So I did not respond to the current agent's request to speak to them yet.

This morning, a lady from the agent's office came knocking on the door. She came to do an inspection. She claims they have sent a letter to us earlier telling us they were coming to do an inspection. Well no they didn't, plus they didn't call either, so we were completely unawares of this. This is the school holidays and the house is a bit of a tip. At first I wanted to turn her away as this to me is an unannounced inspection, but my "soft" husband kept winking at me to let her in and she had a really argumentative tone to her voice and sounded very pushy but basically she "wanted" us to go to their office afterwards to speak to her boss to let them know whether we are moving or not.

I have never met an estate agent like this. I felt like arguing with her about the surprise inspection but because of my husband's obvious reluctance to put up any resistance, I let her be.

I feel like all this agent has done is not standard estate agent practice. Or is it?

Ten I think that is just not helpful. All adults over 18 should be named on an AST. If only her DH is named and only he has signed then the letter can come from him and 'he' can also state he would like all correspondence in the matter to be with his DW who is fully in the loop on the various issues.

I am named on the tenancy agreement too. I've always been named on all our tenancy agreements, and as a side note, this makes the application fees for agencies really expensive for us as we always have to pay for a 2 people's application, referencing and credit checks. The fact that he's been the main breadwinner and pays the rent all these years... it doesn't mean my name doesn't need to be included on the agreement. It always has to be included. Perhaps this is because we are married?

Ah yes sorry just saw your comment wowfudge. Yes that's the reason why. All adults over the age of 18 have to be named on the tenancy agreement.

No the fees weren't mentioned on their listing. I looked at their listing lots of times before, even after we moved in for the first month or so, still had their ad stored on my Rightmove app to view. I did look at it again lots of times to check the difference between what is shown on the photos and what we saw when we moved in - yes there were differences. I think those photos on the listing must have been taken ages ago. This agent does not mention costs of fees in any of their listings. They have a few properties now on Rightmove and none of them mention how much the fees are.

Right - OP before you send your letter, ring the agent and ask for the LL's contact details. Don't be fobbed off and point out you have a right to those details by law.

If they won't give them to you (why you want them is none of their business) then try edq (just google it, it's BT directory enquiries online) and see if you can get the LL's phone number by putting their surname and the first part of the postcode in. Then you can ring the LL and explain you have been doing your own research because the agent is breaking the law by not giving you their contact details. Although you have found an address for them, you want to check it is current as you are writing a letter to the agent and want to copy the LL in, plus you didn't just want to rock up on their doorstep. Sometimes if you google someone's name and address, lo and behold the phone number pops up.

You can add refusing to give you the LL's contact details as legally required to the list of issues in the letter if they won't give them to you.

As for terms being on the agent's website, that's a smokescreen. The vast majority of renters will find somewhere on Rightmove, click on 'email the agent' or just ring them without looking on the agent's own website, especially with apps on phones. The onus is on the agent to prove they gave the details of all their ts and cs and charges to the tenant.

Wow

I don't disagree with you. We had crap estate agents previously, too, who made you feel cr*p. Maybe the fact that we had such crap agents, makes me think that our current ones are good.

Amongst the ones I dare not touch wit a barge pole ever again is a certain nation-wide estate agent (one whose corporate name begins wit an "F", and has signage in green and yellow). They charge £420 just to draw up the tenancy agreement. That charge is actually shown on every advert they have out there.

In contrast, our EAs charged £175 for the initial contract which I believed to be a better offer.

You just proved my point on advertising fee OP

OP - I think if they really haven't informed you of the charges, then you have a case in the "clear and not misleading" argument. Most estate agents we had (even the crap ones) normally do provided a charges sheet and if yours didn't do anything like that, then you have a case to complain.

F's aren't nationwide Ten; they advertise they are 'London and Surrey's Estate Agent'. Never seen them up here. I think the equivalent here in the NW begins with B and has red and white signage. My tenant has told me they wanted an arm and leg in fees - she's moving because of a new job. She's had to pay similar to you with a 'more reasonable' agent in vetting fees.

Can't get hold of the agents just now, they're not picking up the phone.

Can't find phone directory records of the landlord on edq either.

But I managed to find their details on 192.com saying they are on the electoral roll up till 2014 and I would have to pay 6.95 to view their address details and stuff. I'm not sure if the service is worth it and if it gives accurate details, to be honest.

I'm on Shelter now as I managed to get through their busy phone lines! Just waiting for the adviser to tell me what she thinks.

Okay just been talking to the Shelter woman. Noted down some things she said.

1. No set requirement for how long to give notice if we want to leave at the end of 6 month AST. The general advice is 1 month but that's more like for courtesy purposes. OFT says technically you can even leave it till the last day of your stay to notify you are leaving. Never tested in court.

2. They can't see how the agents can deduct from our deposit agency fees as the law states what deposits are for and they are not for agency fees. She said she can't see how anyone presiding over the case would award the agents these fees from the deposit. Deposits are for rent arrears and damage to the property mainly.

3. She said it doesn't sound right that we would be charged a tenancy renewal fee for the tenancy becoming a monthly rolling contract after the 6 month AST. It is our statutory right to have a 6 month AST converted to a monthly rolling contract, enshrined in law.

4. The cracked window, she says, if the agent was aware of it from the beginning, should not be our responsibility even if the crack doubled in size. Windows are considered part of the structure and exterior of the building and as such, the Landlord is responsible for repairs. She said I could quote section 11 from the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985 to them.

5. Agents by law must provide LL's contact details within 21 days of a tenant's request for those things, or else they are breaking the law and liable to pay a fine.

6. Check which of the 3 schemes my agent has joined, to complain to if the my correspondence with the agent gives me no joy.

7. Told me to call Trading Standards helpline about the way the agent does things (not telling us about fees until after holding deposit is taken, etc...) because Shelter does not like to advise on anything relating to "contractual terms".

8. Gave me the number of my local council's tenancy relations officers that deal with the private renting sector. She said they will help me look into this matter too.

Whew... that's that. Tomorrow I'm going to call the agent and ask for LL's details. If it's not forthcoming, I'm including that in the letter so I have paper evidence proving I did ask.

Great advice for you there OP. Good luck for tomorrow.

Thanks!

Everything Shelter have told you is right kettle but remember the agents weren't trying to charge you for moving onto a rolling tenancy, the fee was for extending the lease by another 6 month term. As they have served you with a section 21 notice, your tenancy will automatically expire at the end of the original 6 months. There is no question of it rolling over. There is also no need for you to give notice. Your tenancy is ending.

Sorry to labour the above but it isn't clear whether you've taken that in. It's also why you can't be charged termination fees: you haven't terminated, they have. They can't land you with a fee like that.

They were trying to charge me for moving to a rolling tenancy. Their list of fees said moving to a rolling tenancy costs £75 and moving to a fixed term tenancy costs £60. I did mention this before but I apologise if my words somehow got lost in translation!

Another thing is my DH said he suspects our shed is made of asbestos as it looks very much like his previous workplace which had asbestos in the building structure. The agents never told us about it and we cannot be sure it is unless it has been tested and shown conclusively to be asbestos. DH thinks it's perhaps the local council's job to do the testing... but not sure if we should go ahead with this and if this is the right way to do it - I.e. calling the council?

The agent told me over the phone that if we stay after the 6 month AST, we have to either pay £60 for another fixed term extension, or £75 if we wish the tenancy to become a rolling monthly contract, and if we decide not to stay on, we have to pay £35 to leave .

Also I'm not sure if the asbestos really is in the shed, is it a legal requirement for the agent to inform us of that from the beginning? Seeing as the shed isn't really part of the living quarters as such.

We do store the stuff we cannot fit into this tiny house in the shed mentioned, though.

Providing asbestos in good condition it shouldn't pose a health risk.

Okay I see. DH thought it would be a legal requirement for landlords to disclose information relating to asbestos because not everyone knows how to check for asbestos or what it looks like. I had a Google and it does seem to be the case that landlords in this country (unlike in the USA, etc.) do not have a legal requirement to disclose the presence of asbestos in the property they're renting out. Luckily DH knows about asbestos and how to check the condition.

kettleoffish

Seriously though, are you not getting yourself worked up by this? It is clear you do not like the place, and it is also quite clear you will leave either by your own accord or not (they did serve you with a S.21 notice, and you can get evicted if you choose not to leave). I would just look for something else and move in 2 months time.

As I said before - I have been in your shoes and hated estate agents in the past. But going through as much trouble as you are, for what will eventually be the exact same result (you moving), might not be the right thing to do.

The one thing DH and I regret even now is that we stayed at our previous place (with the crappy EAs) for too long. We both think it would have been better for our sanity had we just moved earlier.

Ten you have already stated you are happy to pay numerous agent's fees such as check out(!) and termination fees, the OP isn't. Unless tenants stand up to shysters like this particular agent, nothing will ever change.

Writing the letter will certainly be cathartic and if the outcome is that this agent wakes up to its responsibilities and the law, then that must surely be a bloody good thing.

Asbestos is only dangerous if it is broken as the the particles can then be released into the air.

I feel you are over-thinking your current situation, the agents have served a s.21 giving you notice that they require possession of the property at the end of your tenancy. I can fully understand this, after all they are giving you 2 months notice. I know it sounds harsh but all they have really done is let you know formally that you will need to move out, what is really wrong with that?

I agree they are trying to get as much fees in as possible, but as THEY have terminated the tenancy you shouldn't be liable for any further fees.

You need to make plans to move out and channel your energy into that IMO.

Hope i don't come across as not caring, more I think you need to take a step back and look at the bigger picture which is finding somewhere new to live.

And you really should have queried their charges when they were given to you with the keys. You should have said then that you felt their fees were unreasonable, rather than four months down the line.

The agents obviously are walking on thin ice but you haven't really done enough yourselves to protect you from them.

When you find somewhere new YOU should manage the paperwork side rather than leaving it to your DH as you are clearly meticulous and ALL paperwork should be read thoroughly rather than leaving it to this stage.

wowfudge

Have you written a letter like that to an agent once? I have. As I said, I was in the OP's shoes once. It was cathartic for maybe a few hours, but it made living in the place hell for the next few months, as the agents took it personal, and any hope of a respectful relationship thereafter was gone. As with everything in life, you have to choose your battles. I'm not sure it's worth it when the outcome is the same.

The OP has to see it from different sides, and not just look at comments from people who support her, but those who know the downside of doing what she's planning to do. This forum is not just about gaining support for one's endeavour - it's a forum after all, i.e. getting different people's views that may not agree with yours, so you can determine what to do.