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Original poster

Is my estate agent allowed to do this?

217 replies

kettleoffish · 29/10/2014 10:27

We moved in 4 months ago on a 6 month lease. Soon after moving in, we were sent a list of charges. Well I was surprised at first at what I read. In all my 12 years of renting with different agents around the country from moving about quite often, I've never met an agent who charges us £60 for extending the lease for another 6 months, or charging £75 for extending the lease to a 1-month running lease after our 6 mth lease is up.

The house has problems. The lounge window had a 2 inch crack on the bottom left corner which was never fixed. The agent had a builder come in to look but then after he went away, we never heard from him again. Now the crack has grown to a 8 inch crack.

And now, this is another first for me as well, but the agent sent us a letter at the beginning of October to ask us to tell them "soon as possible" if we are moving out of the house or not. Well I do want to move as this home is too small for us but we took it at first because it was the only house for rent in the area we wanted at first. But since letting agents often want people to move in within a month after putting down a deposit, we are still in the process of viewing new homes but didn't think we should pledge to move in any properties yet until November. So I did not respond to the current agent's request to speak to them yet.

This morning, a lady from the agent's office came knocking on the door. She came to do an inspection. She claims they have sent a letter to us earlier telling us they were coming to do an inspection. Well no they didn't, plus they didn't call either, so we were completely unawares of this. This is the school holidays and the house is a bit of a tip. At first I wanted to turn her away as this to me is an unannounced inspection, but my "soft" husband kept winking at me to let her in and she had a really argumentative tone to her voice and sounded very pushy but basically she "wanted" us to go to their office afterwards to speak to her boss to let them know whether we are moving or not.

I have never met an estate agent like this. I felt like arguing with her about the surprise inspection but because of my husband's obvious reluctance to put up any resistance, I let her be.

I feel like all this agent has done is not standard estate agent practice. Or is it?

OP posts:
Original poster
kettleoffish · 31/10/2014 13:46

Well you might be happy to pay it, but I'm not, because I've never been charged it. I know it doesn't have to be charged. Why do you think it should exist just because you and others have been paying it for years? Do you not think it should stop?

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Original poster
kettleoffish · 31/10/2014 13:49

And by the way, if anyone is interested... I found this

england.shelter.org.uk/campaigns/fixing_private_renting/letting_agencies

OP posts:
TenOnMe · 31/10/2014 13:53

kettleoffish

Did you not rent most of your previous properties directly from the LL though? Is this the first time you're renting from an agent?

Original poster
kettleoffish · 31/10/2014 13:59

I have rented from both private LLs and agencies and I have lived in the north, south and west of England in the past 12 or 13 years.

OP posts:
Original poster
kettleoffish · 31/10/2014 14:02

I have never met a pro-LL tenant before. You must be the first. Wink

OP posts:
Original poster
kettleoffish · 31/10/2014 14:04

Okay maybe I'm wrong and you're not pro-LL... but I don't understand why you think all these extra charges like tenancy renewals and check out fees are good for you as a tenant.

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wowfudge · 31/10/2014 14:04

OP - have you also seen this? on the Shelter website?

It's a criminal offence for the letting agent not to be signed up to this and it's in operation from 1st October 2014.

I think the clause you referred to which mentioned deductions from your deposit for their fees in an unfair contract term and I'd be interested to know, when the deposit is the tenant's money held in trust to pay for repairing any damage to the property, how they would get their hands on it and how they would account for it with the LL.

wowfudge · 31/10/2014 14:08

I am with you on the fees issue as well because the levels they are charged at are a premium: they are not just covering their costs, but multiple them by a factor of a finger in the air, it seems. It doesn't cost 60 to make two phone calls, change the dates in a document held on a PC and post it out. And it costs bugger all to let an AST become a Periodic Tenancy.

Furthermore, in a lot of cases letting agents are charging both the LL and the tenant for the same thing.

Original poster
kettleoffish · 31/10/2014 14:09

That's new to me.. its a very new scheme isn't it? I don't know if my agent is signed up to it. Yes, do you think the clause I mentioned in the contract means the agents can deduct what they want from our deposit to pay for their fees?

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Llareggub · 31/10/2014 14:14

I rent after years of home ownership. I have also been a LL.

In my view, letting agents are out to fleece everyone. My current rental was empty for 18 months and my poor LL accepted the word of the letting agents that they were doing all they could to rent it. They weren't. I tried for weeks to view the property and was only able to in the end by contacting the LL directly by asking the neighbours for his details. I was very happy when he decided to sack them!

Other letting agents couldn't be bothered to turn up for viewings. Tenants are not the customer in their eyes.

Best of luck in finding somewhere else to live.

Original poster
kettleoffish · 31/10/2014 14:14

Unfortunately DH signed the contract so that makes our case even weaker. I wonder if we could argue we were backed in a corner because the agents have taken our holding deposit before letting us know the fees? Surely agents should not assume all potential renters are aware of all these kinds of fees they can charge, and not informing potential renters about the fees before a holding deposit has been paid.

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TenOnMe · 31/10/2014 14:15

What you basically have to think about is this:

When you rent through an EA, you pay the LL and also the EA. Most likely, the EA also outsources inventory check-in and out... so you pay yet another party for that. Nobody works for free.

When you rent from the LL, he/she deals with you directly, you pay him/her. This requires LLs to have time to deal with tenants. Many don't and outsource this to EA.

kettleoffish I understand your annoyance. I once thought like you. And believe me, I have had some malicious, villain-like thoughts about previous estate agents Blush. In other countries, where the majority of the population rents (e.g. Germany - over 60% of the population are tenants), the law is much more on the side of tenants. Doesn't bode well for elections, if you as a politician don't side with them. This also leads to much better standard of rental properties.

However, that is not the case in England, where the majority of the population owns property (so law siding with LLs seems to be the way to go here).

wowfudge · 31/10/2014 14:15

I think that's certainly how they want you to interpret it. I don't think it would hold water for that though, because your deposit is all about paying for damage to the property.

Just because the agreement is littered with these kinds of terms doesn't mean they are lawful or enforceable.

wowfudge · 31/10/2014 14:27

OP - this is directly cut and pasted from Shelter's website: A letting agent should provide clear information about its fees, charges and holding deposits before you agree to take up a tenancy.

They didn't, did they? That's how I read things. Stop getting hung up on what your DH signed and get the agent written to! I mean that in the nicest possible way. Stick to the facts, clearly stated and don't find the potential holes in your argument for them. They had your money before they made their charges clear to you. Had you queried them it seems highly likely to me that they would have said they were non-negotiable, relying on you being worried about losing your holding deposit should you have chosen to walk away.

TenOnMe I find your take on things quite odd. And I'm a LL. I don't think anyone should be milking two different parties for the same thing and, unfortunately, because tenants are made to feel as though they have a million hoops to jump through to be considered suitable when they are looking for a home and all the emotive resonance that has, they are in a much weaker position than a LL. An awful lot of LLs will be looking at the costs to them of using a letting agent without a thought for how much it also costs the tenant.

Yes, certain services are outsourced, but the point is that many of the agents' fees are extortionate compared to the actual cost to them.

TenOnMe · 31/10/2014 14:30

Our current tenancy agreement shows all that expected of us, including:

  • we have to pay for the check-out wen leaving;
  • renewal fee of £50 plus VAT, lapsing and going to periodic tenancy is £25 plus VAT;
  • professionally clean everything on departure...

Mind you, without the last part, I wouldn't even know you can get your ovens cleaned to the point they look completely new!!!

And no, I don't want to pay all this, but someone has to pay all the people in the "rental industry"...

TenOnMe · 31/10/2014 14:45

wowfudge - as I said, if LLs did everything themselves, then we wouldn't have to pay EAs... but they don't.

In terms of the charges - you can say that about many things. I am sure the jeans I'm wearing didn't cost over £100 to make. If all estate agents worked from home, that might be cheaper, but they have to actually pay for their offices and other overheads before making a profit, too. So you can't just say it should not be worth £60 because it only takes max. 30 minutes to sort out. You're obviously not jut paying for the time spent on this.

At an old workplace, I saw how much our company got billed by a very reputable magic circle law firm to draw up a contract. Essentially, it was a copy and paste job done by a graduate, presumably, as it was littered with mistakes and looked 85% like a contract I've seen before. It was more complex than an AST agreement... still, should the cost for it all have been well into the five figures? Even well-paid suits aren't paid that much for a job that would have taken them just a few hours. But that was the going rate...

wowfudge · 31/10/2014 14:57

I think it is iniquitous to charge tenants for the check-out and I wouldn't agree to that as a tenant. The check out is for the LL's benefit to protect their property and ensure it is returned to them in good condition and should be a LL cost. Another example of putting pressure on a tenant: you refuse to pay and kiss your deposit goodbye?

As for professionally cleaning everything, well I can see the benefit - especially if somewhere was properly professionally cleaned before the tenancy started, but there must surely be a point with some agents and all their bloody fees where, adding everything up, many tenants would be better off walking away rather than even bothering to try to get their deposit back!

TenOnMe - agents typically charge 10% of the rent every month to the LL for managing a property. In many months, they will be getting that cut for doing nothing; that's the business decision of the LL when they agree to that. My beef is that these agents are then charging tenants on top of the money they are getting from the LL. It is money for old rope.

wowfudge · 31/10/2014 15:02

And please don't patronise me on how the costs are worked out. I know they have overheads, but if they have to charge 60+VAT to renew an AST, they need to cut those overheads.

Original poster
kettleoffish · 31/10/2014 15:03

I am on to the letter now wowfudge. Do you think I should mention anything about the agents taking the holding deposit before telling us their fees? Or just leave it out?

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TenOnMe · 31/10/2014 15:08

Not patronising you, wow fudge. Just pointing out you can say the same thing about lawyers, for example.

wowfudge · 31/10/2014 15:09

Hi OP - yes, definitely. The point is that they haven't been transparent and haven't given you all the facts until they had a monetary hold over you. Just keep things factual, keep emotion out of it and keep it short and to the point.

Did you get the LL's contact details?

TenOnMe · 31/10/2014 15:09

Lawyers don't even lift a finger for £60... Wink

wowfudge · 31/10/2014 15:12

Ten corporate lawyers are usually dealing with corporations so it's a much more equal relationship. Many letting agents seem to behave as though they are God and extract cash from decent people trying to find somewhere decent to live through fear of being homeless/having to settle for a dump.

TenOnMe · 31/10/2014 15:15

OP do you have a copy of the advert of the house you're renting? The agencies in my area put the charges on there. And they also give them to you on a separate sheet when you show your interest in the property. My DH would have probably not "noticed" them. Like the voicemails on his phone that he hasn't listened to for months until I did.

That's one problem I see creeping up on you - because you yourself weren't there when your DH signed the dotted line...

Original poster
kettleoffish · 31/10/2014 15:19

I did pay for the download of the Title Register and it's weird but the address shown of our landlord on the document is just half a mile away from where we now live. I am now wondering if it might be better we knock on their door though I don't want to frighten them unannounced. In fact, I wonder if they have already seen us before! It's not a big place.. it's a village.

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