Herne Hill/ Denmark Hill Please help me narrow down a location

[freezingcoldasalways]

After reading the thread about where to avoid in London I've been inspired to start my own.

We are FTB looking for a 2 bed with plenty of space inside and maybe outside and an easy (read v. short! 10-20max & probably not more that 30min door to door) commute to Farringdon/City Thameslink, with maybe potential to extend in a few years. We have a really good budget 400-500k, it would be with help to buy so we really want to stay within that but we are struggling with locations and don't know where to start.

After lots of research we think maybe Herne Hill or Denmark Hill might be good places to live but I don't know anything about them. Does anyone know the area and think it a nice place? I guess we want to know if it's somewhere with restaurants, coffee places, etc and things to do on the weekend for adults that don't yet have any children!

We've been incredibly lucky with our current rented flat and we manage to walk to into work (we know we are very very lucky! and maybe now are a little spoilt! ) but now we need more space. However we are struggling with the location/space compromise. I guess we still want to go out in central London occasionally and don't want to go too far out.

Can someone please help me narrow down where to start looking?

If you haven't had meze at the Greek Taverna in Camberwell Grove then you haven't lived...

sometimes you just have to get a little under the skin of a place to see what it really offers

Just to echo what other posters have said - you didn't actually make it to East Dulwich, where people actually hang out. Out of ED station, turn right, keep going until the roundabout and you're at the top of Lordship Lane. Try the Palmerston on the corner of Lordship Lane & North Cross Road for lunch, of if it's a Saturday grab some street food from the market on NCR.

It's about to get a picture house cinema, Iceland is turning into M&S and Franco Manca are bringing us delicious pizza come November. What's not to like?

Bear in mind that a lot of what people love about a place is community, & like minded people. You'll not get that part until you out some roots down.

If you are after the feeling of Hampstead you aren't going to find it in Camberwell, that's for sure. I live here and it's brilliant but I think I like different things to you.

It sounds like you'd be more at home in Blackheath or Greenwich tbh.

quodlibet I was about to suggest Blackheath. You'd have to accept a less convenient commute, OP, but for my money it's the closest you'll find to W Hampstead south of the river.

PS freezing I'm sorry if I sounded bossy above. I'm deeply fond of the area and I want others to love it as I do. It does sound like you are in a predicament so common to London FTBers - renting in an area which they love but can't afford to buy. I wish you so much luck - it is really stressful.

Ham we would buy in the area we are renting if we could. I guess that's pretty usual in London. We are going down to Dulwich Village this weekend again to see if we like that side of things better.

Freezing I don't know about trains from tulse hill - as it's further down the line, it can only be better but not sure how much. It doesn't compare with Herne Hill for villageyness though.

The commute is why we were initially drawn to HH. DP loves Greenwhich/Blackheath but the commute would be long, he says he doesn't mind but I mind since I'll be the one commuting during peak times not him.

London is a funny place to be FTB. We want to like the area we live in, at the moment we like our neighbours but don't have a 'community of like minded people'. We just enjoy the walks, restaurants, bars etc within easy distance.

We've gone back to drawing board and are looking at different commutes again. I keep threating DP by saying that I will sign us up to Location, Location, Location just to have Kirsty and Phil help us find an area to live in!

Just so you know, the streets people have recommended you visit aren't in Dulwich Village, they are in East Dulwich. If you want to check out both areas, I'd suggest the following walking route.

I really feel for you as it can be hard to check out an area you don't know without any guidance!

If you are heading back to the area for another walk around, I'd suggest you check out East Dulwich and Dulwich Village. Start at Goose Green and walk up Lordship Lane. Turn onto North Cross Road (which has a nice Saturday market) and then go back onto Lordship Lane and walk up until you get to Townley Road-after Townley Lordship Lane is largely residential with a few exceptions so you can skip it. Take Townley to Dovercourt Road and then turn on Court Lane and head into Dulwich Park which is lovely.

Leave the park via the entrance by Dulwich Picture Gallery (ask if you are unsure as everyone will know). The Picture Gallery is nice if you want to visit it but if not, just head north down Dulwich Village road (this is the Village High Street) toward North Dulwich station.

Just as a heads up, on Lordship Lane there are a few restaurants that are changing hands at the moment so even though they may look closed, they are actually being refurbished and taken over. Franco Manca is opening near the Bishop and due to open in December, the Adventure Bar is being taken over by Tsunami (the Japanese place on Charlotte street and are due to open later in October), the old Church Hall is being taken over by the Picturehouse indie cinema chain and is scheduled to open in December and the former Speedo Pizza site near Boulangerie Jade is being taken over Burro e Salvia (from Shoreditch). As someone else previously mentioned, M&S just had their planning application approved to take over the Iceland on Lordship Lane so there are a lot of changes in the works. Also the Greyhound Pub in Dulwich Village is being turned into a boutique hotel so that is currently shut for works. When I actually list it all out, it is kind of insane how many places are changing at the moment!

If you have time for a detour, I'd recommend you also do the short walk between North Cross Road and Whately Road on Crystal Palace Road while you visit the market as there are two popular pubs (the Actress and the Great Exhibition on that stretch).

The fitness places can be hard to spot but there is a large Fusion on the bottom of Crystal Palace Road and East Dulwich Road in addition to ESPH gym and Push Studios which both offer yoga, Pilates, Zumba etc. Those studios are on Lordship Lane near the gelato place Oddono's. If you aren't too tired by all of that, I would jump on a bus down Lordship Lane towards Forest Hill and visit the Horniman Museum and Gardens if it is a nice day.

Due to the Saturday market on North Cross Road, I'd definitely recommend that as the best day to check out the area.

I hope you have better luck with your second visit and your general search. Even if you live in Camberwell, you can walk to most of the amenities in Dulwich listed above in less than 10 minutes so that might be the right compromise in the end.

LondonGirl83 you must have a lot more stamina than me to do that walk in one day. I thought going from Denmark Hill to ED far and then when I couldn't take walking anymore we tried to get a bus but ended up waiting 30 mins.

Maybe to make it work in the areas mentioned we need a car. Do all of you have a car?

I don't have a car but I live right by Lordship Lane so everything is just a 5 min to 10 min walk from my house. My place is about 10 minutes on the bus to Denmark Hill station.

The walk I outlined would be much easier than going from Demark Hill Station in Camberwell to East Dulwich Station and then down Camberwell Grove. That's a hard walk because of the hills.

The walk up Lordship Lane starting at Goose Green is about 10 minutes. You can walk the market on North Cross Road in 5 minutes if you don't stop to look at anything. From Lordship Land and Townley Road, the walk to the park is 10-15 minutes.

Cutting through the park can take as little as 5 minutes but you could spend an hour strolling around if you like.

Then walking down Dulwich Village is about 10 minutes.

If you were rushing through it, you could spend an hour in total but to really get a feel I'd suggest to pop in somewhere for lunch to break up the afternoon and take your time.

If you tell me what kind of food you like, I can recommend some place as their are scores of places to eat on Lordship Lane and Northcross Road.

You were phenomenally unlucky to have to wait that long - I regularly go from ED to DH and vice versa and virtually never wait for more than 5 mins (and usually 2-3 mins).

We were very hesitant about moving into DH/Camberwell, but actually it's bloody great. There are some lovely restaurants - genuinely good food; nice bars; nice parks; the Horniman up the road, the works. The easy commute is the cherry on the cake

there not their!

Great post from LondonGirl, and a great itinerary. If you can afford Dulwich Village then you can probably afford W Hampstead!

Thanks for all the advice ham

LondonGirl I really liked the flat so we are going back up to Camberwell/DH on sunday to do the walk you suggested.

I don't think we'll live in Dulwich Village because of the commute. We are looking at a place in W Hamstead but the 2nd bedroom barely fits a double bed. So I don't think it will a favorite. We are looking for space so we'll keep looking in South London for a home.

as PP have said, you didn't even get into ED on your walk. And I have never waited 30 mins for a bus! I do have a car which we use a fair bit, but it's not necessary.

A lot of the good things in Camberwell are hidden away. But it certainly isn't a mash-up of W Hampstead and Shoreditch! I think perhaps you are expecting all the good bits to be in one small area, which isn't the case - there are a lot of great places to go, but spread between Camberwell, Peckham, ED, Dulwich Village, Honor Oak etc. Near DH station would be a great base, but not everything you want is within a 5 minute walk of there.

DD has just started school on Grove Lane so I'm up that way a lot at the mo, we love the walk to school and I can pick up practical bits and bobs in Camberwell, pop to the library and go for a swim. Ruskin Park for an after school ice cream on a Friday.

Get your walking boots on and have a really good wander, just drift around.

River we saw the school, good to know the walk to and from on Grove Lane is nice, we were a bit skepital because of all the council estates and odd looking alley ways. I guess was expecting the good bits to be all together, most places I've lived in London had been that way.

I totally accept we walked in the wrong bits and that affected the 'feeling' of the place. Plus it was a sunday so I'm wondering if everyone was in Ruskin Park etc enjoying themselves making the streets seem empty and eery.

We are giving it another go this weekend, while we decide what to do about this flat. I don't think we'll find anywhere as nice but at the same we are skeptical about the area. It all boils down to me not wanting to make a potentially very expensive mistake

the estate you cut through to get from Camberwell Grove to Grove Lane is fine, been through it many a time. I like all the little alleys and cut throughs round there, and there are some interesting modern houses hidden away. You should have come on Open House weekend, SE5 has squillions of contemporary architecturally interesting houses open.

Have a wonder through Grove Park, it's off Camberwell Grove further up the road (as if you were going to DKH school).

And the new cafe Ortus, which is in the building next to the school (but is part of the Maudesley) is meant to be very nice. There's a wee parade of shops and cafes if you walk to the top of Grove Lane, past the ram and wolf sculptures (so carry straight on rather than bearing right to the station).

The balance between house size, commute and ammenities is the bane of every Londoner's house search. I feel for you!

If you like ED or Dulwich Village when you visit, the commute might not be too bad to around City Thameslink.

From ED, you can get to DH via bus and from Dulwich Village you can get to Herne Hill via bus pretty quickly and reliably during the rush hour. One of my friends who works for Goldman Sachs used to commute from ED. She took the 37 bus to Herne Hill and then went on to City Thameslink: her door to door was only 35 min.

Don't judge weekend bus service for your potential commute.

LondonGirl thanks for the tip. For the moment I think we still want a walk to the train station commute rather than a bus-train/train-bus commute (its ok to still be dreamy like that right? Even in the middle of a London home search...) . Is your friend not doing the commute anymore because she moved areas?

She was renting and now bought a place that is closer to Peckham Rye station so she commutes from there instead. She is actually still in East Dulwich but uses a different station as she is on the far Eastern edge now.

Peckham Rye might be a good option for you actually. If you like Dulwich when you visit, if you live near Bellenden Road in Peckham you can walk to Lordship Lane very easily and walk to Peckham Rye station which goes to Blackfriars.

Bellenden Road itself is the "smart" shopping street in Peckham with lots of quirky indie shops. Rye Lane where the station is itself is rather scruffy but is actually full of hipsters. There are lots of hidden bars and summer time events though which is great. The roof top cinema on top of the Bussy Building is very cool. The station itself is going to have a major facelift (funds are in place and its currently in public consultation) so its a good area to buy in as its the best connected station in SE London I think -- trains to Victoria, Blackfriars, London Bridge and the East London Line.

Also, ED station looks a bit of a mess at the moment as the garden center that was attached to it has sold up to developers. 9 flats are being developed there as well as a new library and a small grocery store.

Haus of Wood on Lordship Lane is reportedly being taken over by Black Lab Coffee (though I don't know if that's true). The Irish Shop is being taken over to , but I don't know by who. I just want to prepare you as right now Lordship Lane may look like it has more empty shops than normal because a lot of them are in the process of being fitted out / taken over.

freezing Londongirl has done an excellent itinerary. If you can't tell by now, those of us who live here really really like it which is why we keep coming back to persuade you to give it another shot .

We moved across the river from just down the road from Hampstead, so I do understand your dilemmas and it is difficult to get a proper feel for a place when you're just visiting.

We live near Bellenden Road and it's turned into a really lovely little street - there's a nice Italian restaurant called Artusi, a really wonderful Thai restaurant, the pub on the corner is great and has a playroom for kids (saw Olivia Coleman in there once (not the playroom, the pub)), the bookshop is great, there's the General Store for posh groceries, a grocer/corner shop, a brilliant butcher (run by a guy who used to be with the Ginger Pig in Borough), plus the hairdresser's, and a dry cleaner's run by the nicest man. Oh and the chocolate shop and Bias, which does clothes and nice things.

There are also posh coffee shops springing up closer to Peckham Rye station, which is a sure sign the area's being invaded by hipsters on the Shoreditch express. There's also a craft beer bar I think, and the Bussy building is home to a new yoga studio as well. Having lived here ten years I can say hand on heart that the mix of people getting off at Peckham Rye has changed enormously and there are a lot more beards around than there used to be.

As for cars, I do have one, but only really use it when I've got DS, to get to Dulwich park or further without him freaking out and me having to carry him home. I find that living here means people have several options for getting anywhere. e.g. if I want to go to the south bank, I might get a train from Peckham Rye to Blackfriars, or a train to London Bridge from ED, and then change for a train to Charing Cross and walk across the bridge, or get the 176 all the way to Waterloo. None of the options are as far apart of they first appeared.

(Also you haven't mentioned whether or not you'll be thinking of a family, but in case you are, once you're done with the pubs, this is a great area to have a baby in - merits a whole post on its own.)

Good luck at the weekend. It's a huge step.

You should check out Crystal palace; great restaurants and parks and v family friendly

For those that have said Blackheath is close to West Hampstead, South of the river, can I be cheeky and ask for elucidation? Would love to know, as I met someone last year saying how much she loves Blackheath and I wondered about moving there.