Herne Hill/ Denmark Hill Please help me narrow down a location

[freezingcoldasalways]

After reading the thread about where to avoid in London I've been inspired to start my own.

We are FTB looking for a 2 bed with plenty of space inside and maybe outside and an easy (read v. short! 10-20max & probably not more that 30min door to door) commute to Farringdon/City Thameslink, with maybe potential to extend in a few years. We have a really good budget 400-500k, it would be with help to buy so we really want to stay within that but we are struggling with locations and don't know where to start.

After lots of research we think maybe Herne Hill or Denmark Hill might be good places to live but I don't know anything about them. Does anyone know the area and think it a nice place? I guess we want to know if it's somewhere with restaurants, coffee places, etc and things to do on the weekend for adults that don't yet have any children!

We've been incredibly lucky with our current rented flat and we manage to walk to into work (we know we are very very lucky! and maybe now are a little spoilt! ) but now we need more space. However we are struggling with the location/space compromise. I guess we still want to go out in central London occasionally and don't want to go too far out.

Can someone please help me narrow down where to start looking?

We lived in Denmark for two years. We left a year ago. Benefits are that it's near some great areas - East Dulwich, Herne Hill and Dulwich Village. They're all walkable from where we were living on Champion Hill. Transport is great as it's on the overground now and the station was recently renovated too. Very close to King's College top (which was handy for us, having DD, and also when she needed subsequent treatment as a newborn). But we never really settled there because it didn't feel like it had an identity of its own, as an area. I wasn't keen on Camberwell either as it always felt edgy in a bad way to me, despite the fab art college nearby. Denmark Hill does have the lovely Ruskin Park, with a good playground and paddling pool for kids. But I'd prefer Herne Hill or East Dulwich as a place to buy and settle in, if you can afford it.

When I talk about Camberwell feeling edgy I mean the main shopping areas, where people could be a bit shovey and rude. Obviously there are all the leafy streets like Camberwell Grove which is gorgeous.

And we lived in Denmark Hill, rather than Denmark, obviously. I really should have previewed this before posting....

East Dulwich is great but I fear it might be out of your budget.

I know Camberwell very well and agree that if you stick to the areas nearest the station around Camberwell Grove then you can't go far wrong. If you would consider ex-council then there are some small estates on CG. Grovelands Close is a small private development off CG by the railway line. They don't come up very often but when they do they're excellent value for money for the location.

the art school is indeed closer to Peckham, but Camberwell does have a whopping great teaching hospital (Kings) and attendant student housing. We drove past some extremely swanky-looking new halls of residence just today.

500k as an upper budget can definitely still get you a two bed in ED!

Beckwith Road is gorgeous and as much Dulwich Village as it is Herne Hill.

This is a bit over budget but you get a lot for your money and it's close to Herne Hill.

Holmdene Avenue is another good street in the "North Dulwich triangle".

Burbage Road 3 bedder - another one practically in Dulwich Village.

Basically, if you take HH train station as the centre, you want to look in the upper right quadrant.

I lived in the North Dulwich triangle ten years ago, before I moved over to near Bellenden. I'd rather live here, both pre and post kids, but maybe that's partly due to having fabulous neighbours - we like it round here so much we're buying a house in the same street. Peckham/Bellenden are still on the rise in terms of fancy shops & yoga studios moving in, so might offer a good investment for trading up as well, and we have a five minute walk to Lordship Lane.

We live in a weird pocket in between three stations: East Dulwich, Denmark Hill and Peckham. You can get a train to Blackfriars in ten minutes from Peckham, which is amazing for getting to the Southbank, plus there's the option of the overground, for when the trains from ED are dodgy, and there's also the 40 bus which goes up DKH straight to the city.

there's this or this is a bit over budget but v swanky plus I can vouch for Lettsom Gardens being a nice bonus.

Thanks for all the advice. We spent Sunday walking around Denmark Hill/North Dulwhich/HH etc.

We saw a flat we loved in Denmark Hill but we just couldn't get with the area! I know some of you said there were bars, restaurants etc but we couldnt find them! We ended up in HH just so we could rest and have some lunch.

Walking around has led to a big crisis in our house search, we thought we would like the areas and roads but all the shops looked boarded up and it was all very eery! The EA I spoke to today said I was the only person she has ever heard say they didn't like East Dulwich, but there was just nothing there! We clearly went down the wrong roads etc but its make us both a bit concerned about liking the area which is a shame as we think we found a great flat in DH.

If anyone has any advice on other areas to consider I'm all ears. I guess we want the feel of W. Hampstead, St. John's Wood, etc but not the price tag.

Did you walk down Lordship Lane? As PP have said Denmark Hill doesn't have much. East Dulwich station (quieter but still some nice shops, a bakery, pub etc) to way up Lordship Lane and also Northcross Road are the key bits of ED.

I don't think we went down Lordship lane, we had been walking for up to an hour by the time we got to ED. But there was nothing near the station! All boarded up.

Lulupeg do you live there?

I feel totally let down by our walk yesterday, which is silly but I had high hopes that we were finally finding an area we liked and could afford.

Well if you found nothing, especially in ED then you were def on the wrong roads!

From Denmark Hill if you cut across to Camberwell Grove, then Grove Park and then Chadwick Road you get to Bellenden Road which has nice cake shops, posh independent stores etc. The nice places in Camberwell are the Crooked well pub at the bottom of Grove Lane, the Grove pub on Camberwell Grove. The restaurant Angels and Gypsies on camb church st etc. If you walk from Denmark Hill station down Dog Kennel Hill, past the big sainsburys, you will get to Lordship Lane which is the main high street in easy dulwich with loads of shops, cafes, pubs etc. You can also cut across to it from Bellenden rd down the backstreets. There is a nice street market on Saturdays in east dulwich most off lordship lane but can't remember the name of the road. The Palmerston pub is on the corner. There are loads more little areas but these are the main ones. Transport isn't as good, but west dulwich is also a nice little area.

But it is different around SE London and not necessarily for everyone so don't worry if you don't like it all!

Sunny we walked down Grove Lane (to a not-so-nice high street filled with takeaway places and broken bottles on the street), then we walked all the up Camberwell Grove, past Dog Kennel primary, past the Sainsbury's to ED station. I really wanted to like it, it would have had perfect transport links and the flat was a real possibility.

Is there any other places we should look? I liked the look of the area by the flat and DH/HH but it was so eery and quiet and it all looked run down. Safe to say it was not was I was expecting!

I feel I'm being slightly precious and whiny but its been a long & complicated ride trying to buy in London and just when we thought we were getting somewhere, it all gets turned on it's head again.

In the very nicest possible way - I think that you have unrealistic expectations.

You probably saw some of the scruffier bits if you focused on Dog Kennel Hill and Camberwell Green but in Grove Lane and Camberwell Grove you saw some of the finest roads not just in the SE postcodes but in London altogether. You didn't see the Phoenix pub by DH station? The George Canning or Buddha Jazz around the corner, or the cute little hairdressers next door? You didn't notice the Crooked Well gastropub at the bottom of Grove Lane?

You didn't go far enough into East Dulwich. The station is on the very outskirts of the area and most ED dwellers only go up there for the station and for Sainsburys. A shame that you didn't turn onto Melbourne Groge as you would have found a lovely parade of businesses with an Italian restaurant, an excellent beauty salon and a couple of vintage clothing stores.

I can only encourage you to go back to East Dulwich and spend a Saturday morning walking along Lordship Lane, taking in the market on North Cross Road. I don't know where else to suggest. If DH is too rough for you then Lewisham and Brockley are out. Clapham is perhaps out of your price range, and even there you will find scruffier areas and boarded-up shops.

PS freezing if you do decide to have a second look let us know and we'll map you out a route. Would you be willing to divulge where the flat is?

Getting on a train in Herne Hill is pretty awful in the morning and only going to get worse. I live HH / Brixton borders so have the option of the tube if I need to sit down / not be a sardine.

Does your budget include stamp duty or do you have money on top for that? If the latter then I think you can just afford 2 bed in HH. I wouldn't want to live there (It's fine to visit but a weird middle class bubble imo) but then I love Brixton.

ham is right by the way.

That isn't really ED. ED is Lordship Lane and Nirthcross road. You were more in Camberwell, which is where the flat is.

Personally I agree that the bits you went along aren't that nice. If you have the energy I'd look set ED proper though the commute will be longer

HAM- I didn't think DH was too 'rough' more like there was just nothing there. I guess I expected the station bit to be like HH station with the Lido Cafe and the little stores and butchers etc.

I really liked Camberwell Grove, Grove Lane etc. That was just perfect. The flat isn't far off there but I supposed with the way PP were describing it earlier in the thread, I was thinking it was a mash up of W Hampstead and Shoreditch. Tree lined streets, 'naice' neighbourhood, etc (which were there! and we did like it) but with places to eat, drink etc. (which we didn't see, we saw the Greek taverna but that didn't look appealing). What we ended up seeing was more like the super nice bits of Victoria park, Bow and all the crappy bits of Mile End, lots of dodgy looking pubs and take aways, not little local restaurants.

I've been trying to figure out where we went wrong! And maybe the problem is me. I'm haven't been 'picky' about flats actually I've liked two or three and could have easily made offers but this whole area thing is making me doubt myself. I'm not sure where is best and I guess we need make a choice but strangely I feel really indecisive about. I'm not usually so whishy-washy.

tabby thank you for your post. I was wondering what the commute and trains would be like, I guess it is like everyone is London. Is it any better in Tulse Hill? We are going to see a few places there on Sat.

I haven't given up on south London yet!

Ok from everyone's later posts, it seems that I'm the problem. I just want to love wherever we end up buying and I'm sabotaging because we can't decide and haven't fallen in love with any area.