Landlords: retaining some of the deposit - fairly

[Spaghettio]

My tenant has moved out on the weekend. The inventory has been been done by a professional company and has listed a few areas of her responsibility that have not been done - mainly cleaning, but some damage to floor tiles and children drawing on walls/blinds.

I'm managing the property myself, so I just want some clarification if anyone can help. Do I just get a quote for a professional clean and the costs of replacing the floor tiles/blind? Also, can I retain some of the cost of redecorating as I cant get the pen off the walls?

Do I just email her and tell her this and if she agrees, let the TDS know? Presumably if she doesn't agree, we go through the resolution services through TDS?

We're looking at selling the house, so want it looking as good as possible for viewings, but I don't want to screw her over with her deposit. That said, she hasn't fulfilled her contractual obligations.

TIA

Reallytired - just totally disagree with you. You have obviously had a different experience of being a landlord to me - and are coming to this conversation from the perspective of being a landlord running a profitable business. If you read my post I am effectively renting out my home and it will not be long-term and I will not therefore make any money (other than the negligible amount relating to house price rises which aren't rising where my house is at the moment).

I'm not pleading poverty but am just being clear that I am not making some massive profit at the expense of a poor person who is renting my house and at my mercy. £200 per month is not an excellent income given the amount of time I have spent on the property over the last 12-18 months I have rented it - as I said most of that income has been spent on expenses relating to renting out the property (more regular decorating, cleaning and maintenance that I would have done myself if I lived there, as well as the inventory, gas and elec checks which wouldn't have been necessary). I probably have earned less than the minimum wage with a far higher risk and far more stress. My tenants aren't worrying about the boiler and/or planning, party wall issues - the responsibility and cost is all mine.

I'm not whinging that I have to pay tax but fortunately it is very minimal which I think is quite right given how little profit I actually make (i.e. none).

Really and Special thanks for your replies. We have always kept the managing agents up to date with anything needing attention in the house, but as this was our fault - and I'm rather horrifed and embarrassed that we caused the damage - I was reluctant to tell them. Will do now though. I had in my mind kissed our deposit goodbye (a sizeable amount on £2800 pcm rent) but hopefully all is not lost. Thanks.

HahaHarrie
A landlord cannot take 2K just because for minor damage. That is silly. You might have to pay something, but I am sure TDS will come up with a reasonable amount.

" I probably have earned less than the minimum wage with a far higher risk and far more stress. My tenants aren't worrying about the boiler and/or planning, party wall issues - the responsibility and cost is all mine."

Utter bollox. Have you ever had a job in the real world? Trust me being at work is more stressful than property management. There are lots of jobs more stressful and worse paid than being a landlord (ie. 99% of minimum wage jobs).

I manage two properties and its no where near that much work. I can't see how the work of managing one property is anywhere near an average of 28 hours a month. (Unless you are physically doing the decorating yourself, which would be a bit silly as it would take you forever leaving a large void period.)

Mutley77 inventory gas, electricity checks are peanuts compared to the rent you are getting. Gas safety and service is £60 and is done once a year. You can even have a contract with British Gas if you want peace of mind about unexpected bills.

Electricity checks are optional, but most landlords do it as they have a duty of care to the tenant. Again the electricity check is £60. I do an electricity check every five years.

It costs £90 for an inventory and then there are agency fees of about 10% for fully managed. (Or 5% for rent collection which is what I do) Landlord insurance varies from area to are and property to property.

"If you read my post I am effectively renting out my home and it will not be long-term and I will not therefore make any money (other than the negligible amount relating to house price rises which aren't rising where my house is at the moment).
"

I think that is the problem. You see the rental property as your "home". It is not your home its the tenant's home. To be a successful landlord you need to have emotional distance from the property and not care about children drawing on the walls. I have to admit that I don't understand why you didn't choose to sell.

I wish I had sold my house and never rented it out in the first place, but there we are easy to think that in retrospect. I had a whole load of stress and made a loss. I'm sure that many people do make money from letting, but there is a fair amount of risk too.

I've had several jobs thanks, could you be any more patronising? One of them has been particularly high stress but I don't really want to divulge what it was. Shows to me that your arguments are weak as you are being personally critical rather than just stating your case.

If you read my post I wouldn't consider the money I have spent on the house to be profit (including insurance £350 ish, agent's fees (10% of rent), additional decorating(£1000) that I wouldn't have done otherwise, maintenance (£400), safety checks (£120), inventories (£250) ). These costs in the last year have amounted to more than £2400 which was my "profit". Therefore any time I have spent, which has been fairly significant, has been effectively "free".

I am not bothered about children drawing on the walls, I just consider it appropriate to take a fair recompense from the deposit for any damage caused. Of course it is the tenant's home at the moment - just as my current house is my home at the moment.

Not that it's any of your business, but properties such as mine are hard to come by, hence popular to buy or rent and therefore why wouldn't I keep and rent it out? I may need to move back into the area and therefore makes sense to keep it. I have never been anything other than honest about the fact it is unlikely to a long-term rental for anyone but we have presented it in fairly good condition and expect to keep it that way. We have chosen our tenants to ensure we have people who understand our requirements and hence no need for mediation when we took money for cleaning and minor damage out of our previous tenant's deposit. I am presenting the view that not all landlords are profit-making and running as a business and quite frankly it doesn't matter whether you see that as a problem or not - it's the way it is - there are many people I know who re-locate temporarily for work and rent out their "home". Tenants do need to show respect for their home IMO no matter who the landlord. FWIW our current home is an investment property but we are no less respectful than we would be if it was someone else's "home".

If it is high risk and you make no money why do you do it? Genuine question btw. I renovate houses for a living also a risk but I love it and I make a good living. I think the problem in this country is renting being seen as someones pension and a bit of an easy earner which it isn't always. I think as long as the house is reasonably clean and in one piece that is all you can hope for. My last rental I paid to have it cleaned and it looked better than when we moved in! But I really don't think I should have had to get the house ready for the next tenant at my expense but thats how it was.

noddyholder - if you're asking me it's because we are (temporarily?) re-located for work and want to keep our home that we like in case we need to move back to that area. I am just making the point that some landlords are not in it for profit and we know many others in a similar position to ourselves. So I think the deposit scheme has to work for all..... Probably makes it not ideal for anyone (!)

I think that the deposit schemes are fantastic as they provide tenant and landlords with justice at a reasonable price. They also protect landlords and tenants from losses when an agent goes bankrupts.

I don't think it matters much whether someone is a professional landlord who has set out to have a property rental empire or an amateur renting out their house. I doubt a tenant really cares whether their landlord is making a profit or not. (Having to cover your mortgage is not the tenant's problem.)

The important thing for a tenant is that their landlord is fair, honest and fulfils their responsibilities. Sadly not all landlords are honest which is why these deposit protection schemes are such a good idea.

Most landlords are in it for profit other wise what is the point? I cannot believe that they are doing it out of the desire to house people. There are many accidental landlords and therein lies the problem as it is still their home. THe legislation for this needs tightening imo The thing is a tenant is never going to look after it like you do because they have nothing invested in it

ReallyTierd You're the first landlord I've ever heard say that its not stressful. You've obviously been really lucky.
I dont think you can really equate the stress of an average job with being a landlord and if things go badly being reposessed and credit blacklisted and then possibly losing your own home. The risks and stress from it are HUGE.

I don't think it is the career for someone where you may lose your own home! That is sailing too close to teh wind for my liking

"I don't think it is the career for someone where you may lose your own home! That is sailing too close to teh wind for my liking"

Life is full of risks. I feel its important to be realistic about costs of maintenance and not over mortgage yourself. To be a successful landlord you need to be organised, have the discipline to save and be emotionally detached from the property. For example I spend at £400 a year on maintenance so that my properties never turn into a slum. It keeps the tenants happy and avoids cripplingly maintenance bills. I also keep rents at roughly 10% below the market price which avoids void periods and again keeps tenants happy. (I do market the property at the market price if I am reletting, but I have not had to find new tenants for years.) I tend to put up rents every two years and give my tenants plenty of notice of a rise in rent.

In my experience tenants who happy tend to look after the place. I have only ever had one bad set of tenants in 12 years. Landlord that I know who have been excessively greedy (ie. put up rents extortionately and do no maintainance) end up with more void periods.

Reallytired Sorry to thread hijack but you say if a tenant stays for over five years then they can't claim anything back?

We've been in our house for six years and are moving now, no decoration been done by lanlord during tenancy and wasn't freshly painted before we moved in, also carpets are at least 30 years old. We are having the windows, carpets, oven/hob and fridge professionally cleaned and will clean everything else ourselves but everything does look shabby.Am worried that the landlord (a company not an individual) will try and claim for replacement and decorating. Do you think they would succeed? It's worrying be dreadfully, we have been good tenants and never been late with rent etc.

CoilRegret's link explains it really well

www.propertyhawk.co.uk/index.php?page=magazine&id=118.

A landlord cannot seek betterment. If you damage the carpet or the decoration then you pay an apportion of the value. A bog standard 30 year old carpet is likely to be thread bare. Most people redecorate their homes every five years or so.

A lot depends on what the damage is. There is a difference between malicious damage and outright wear and tear. For example punching holes in the door could see you being charged for a new door as that is not normal wear and tear. There is a reasonable expectation that a door should last a tenancy without needing replacement.

I am not an expert on the rules, but I don't think you have anything to worry about. The deposit protection scheme will arbitrate.

hahharrie no, you will lose only a tiny fraction of your deposit if that.

the only time I've had the whole deposit given to me as a landlord is for a big pile of damage; shedloads (literally) of rubbish left in the garden including mysterious containers of unknown liquid (tenant had legged it) and two almost new carpets wrecked by cats. We had to pay professional hazmat clearers.

I think I've also mentioned an interesting lesson; one room in the house had a brand new carpet when the place was rented out. 8 years later when we returned, it was clearly coming up for replacement time. No holes, no actual damage - but just walked on and lived on. More noticeable when you haven't been in the house for some time, and quite a good demonstration of what 'wear and tear' actually means. This is why the deposit schemes make allowance for this. Had the tenants actually damaged it, we would only have got a small fraction of the replacement cost because it was worn. Fair enough, say I.

I was also an accidental landlord, dh got transferred to New York and the advice from everyone was to let for two years in case we wanted to come back. So I was renting my home with an ordinary sized mortgage (in London, so quite high). The agents said it would rent for far more than it eventually did, my tenants were really bad and the agent was fairly useless (except about taking their cut!). It was a very very stressful period of my life, caused more sleepless nights than any job ever has.

Of course this is very different from the carefully picked letting opportunity which you personally oversee. But given that we rented while we were letting our house and looked after all the houses we lived in it was very frustrating to be spending a lot of money on a house I wasn't even living in and enjoying and with no assurance it wasn't money thrown away is not my idea of fun!

The deposit scheme is a really good idea though, for both landlords and tenants.

CoilRegret
I wouldn't expect my tenants to pay for lots of professional cleaning or go that kind of effort.

"No way would you lose your whole deposit after 5 years even for 'deliberate' damage by little darlings. ;). "

I think a lot depends on what they have done and how malicious the damage is.