Landlords: retaining some of the deposit - fairly

[Spaghettio]

My tenant has moved out on the weekend. The inventory has been been done by a professional company and has listed a few areas of her responsibility that have not been done - mainly cleaning, but some damage to floor tiles and children drawing on walls/blinds.

I'm managing the property myself, so I just want some clarification if anyone can help. Do I just get a quote for a professional clean and the costs of replacing the floor tiles/blind? Also, can I retain some of the cost of redecorating as I cant get the pen off the walls?

Do I just email her and tell her this and if she agrees, let the TDS know? Presumably if she doesn't agree, we go through the resolution services through TDS?

We're looking at selling the house, so want it looking as good as possible for viewings, but I don't want to screw her over with her deposit. That said, she hasn't fulfilled her contractual obligations.

TIA

Thank you coil - that's very helpful!

Sunnyshores it is extremely concerning that in your long history of renting out properties you've never come across that sort of apportionment. If a case goes to dispute, that is exactly how the dps would look to apportion costs. Just goes to show that tenants should never assume that their ll or agent has a thorough grasp of these matters.

"Reallytired - are you saying that pen marks on walls and blinds are not damage? Can you tell me you'd be happy to rent a house that has marks all over the walls from the previous tenant?"

Redecoration between tenancies is pretty standard even if the last tenancy was 18 months.

"I'm not asking that the house looks like a show home - it didn't look like one when she moved in. I would like it to be returned to the state that it wasa in before she moved in. If she chose not to do this before she moved out, she should accept that she will loose some of her deposit to rectify the issues that have been created by HER and HER CHILDREN."

If you choose to rent your property for 18 months then you can't expect it to be returned to exactly the same state as when your tenant moved in. Drawing on the walls or minor damage to a blind is part of the course of renting out a property to a family. I don't know how much you rented your house for, but I am sure you have made a good income from renting to the family. (even if the rent barely covered your mortgage)

In my town a 3 small bed house can be rented for £900. 18 months rent at £900 is a huge sum of money and frankly painting a wall or a damaged blind or minor cleaning is a drop in the ocean in comparision. As a landlord I would tell you to stop being quite so greedy and return the deposit.

I do unfurnished lets, but I believe there are tax allowances for wear and tear if you do furnished.

reallytired I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on what is (to you) minor enough to not retain deposit and what (to me) is malicious damage (albeit by a child who didn't know better) that was not rectified by the adult responsible.

This isn't about making money from the rent to offset the damage caused by a tenant. This is about the deposit - which is taken to pay for these exact circumstances once the tenant has left the property.

i am neither a landlord nor a tenant but this kind of petty charge is exactly why the deposit scheme is such a good idea.

It seems pretty petty to me too. Also neither a landlord nor a tenant. although I have rented out a spare room and have never taken a penny from anyone's deposit. I don't expect them to be able to live somewhere without leaving some mark of their existence. I expected to have to fully clean the room and maybe redecorate between tenants, repair any breakages.

I don't understand why it has become the norm that landlord's don't expect to have to spend a bit on money on maintenance between tenants. You want to sell the house for the best price. You'll get the profit. You put the work in.

Hopefully the TDS will refund the full deposit.

I've been on both sides of this and agree that for damage that was caused you have every right to claim against the deposit.

I also don't buy the excuse "it's rented to a family". We rented a house with a 3 year old and the independent inventory person noted that we left it in a BETTER condition than we rented it in after an adult couple. Consequently we got 100% of the deposit back - no problems.

The tenants that left our house filthy and damaged (carpets needing to be replaced and complete redecoration), as well as leaving a lot of their crap behind, disputed our letting agents claim against their deposit, took it to TDS (?) and lost 100% of their deposit(not that it covered all the costs involved in undoing their damage). That's their karma for treating our house with such disrespect.

It's not mean or money grabbing for there to be consequences to someone not looking after a rental property properly. Good Luck OP it took us ages but was worth it in the end!

Where is Rommel when you need her? I can understand why she has such a low opinons of landlords when they want to take a disportionate amount of the deposit for fairly minor damage.

Spaghettio Prehaps I am kinder landlord than you are. my impression is that you are greedy and petty. You are rasping after every last penny rather like scrooge. There is a tax allowance of 10% for a furnished let to cover costs like this.

Many tenants are poor people and I would choose to overlook minor damage from an otherwise good tenant. Sadly the tenant may well be desperate for the deposit and not be able to wait 12 weeks while the TDS sort the matter out.

"
This isn't about making money from the rent to offset the damage caused by a tenant. This is about the deposit - which is taken to pay for these exact circumstances once the tenant has left the property."

I disagree with you. The deposit is to protect the landlord against non payment of rent, legal costs and putting right extreme damage. It is not there for putting right fairly minor damage.

I think the limescale and all that is petty yeah.

The drawing on walls though, I'm surprised she left the property like that. I'd be ringing you up asking what paint you used so I could cover it.

Really Tired. Your posts seem highly personally critical of the OP to me.
To call her greedy petty and unkind seems rather extreme when she is asking for advice.

The advice is not to be greedy petty and unkind.

use the 10% tax allowance the government allows landlords for this purpose, rather than take the 10% tax allowance and pass the costs onto the tenant.

It's not unkind and greedy to charge for rectifying
Damage to walls. That is not wear and tear.
It is entitled lazy behaviour as is leaving mould
And lime scale in a bathroom.

I actually think you have been more than fair. But you will come in for stick here because it is mums net were all landlords are basterds.

Let me tell you a few points from something I took to TDS and court.

Blood stained mattress - awarded the full cost. Blood staining is not wear and tear or any sort. The age of the mattress was not considered as blood staining rendered it not fit for purpose not worn.

Broken blind - would be wear and tear so an appropriate deduction. We had a paint stained blind. This was considered damage, so similar to your situation. Agina age not considered as no matter how old it got you would not expect it to become paint stained.

We had a filthy bathroom with lots of moulding. The court said that despite the length of tenancy, we had provided adequate ventilation by fan and windows, it was not there at entry, and there was the expectation that the tenant clean appropriately and if unable to clean a build up of mould should be reported to the landlord, this had never been reported and thus the tenant was deemed liable.

We had to repaint, our tenant said it was expected between tenancies even if of 1 year duration. The judge stated he didn't completely repaint his house every year and so didn't agree. He said every 3-5 years depending on the room.

I thought it a good analogy - would you reprint every year in your home? Works birth for the tenant And landlord expectations.

I should add, I have been both tenant and landlord. As both I didn't want to wait 12 weeks for the TDS either. But quite frankly if the tenant is poor it doesn't matter one jot. One if she/he had such an entitled attitude SSS to think they can use 'I'm poor' as an excuse would they leave or create this situation.

All tenants know it is cheaper to fix themselves than pay trades persons.
Being poor does not equal slovenly, dirty and disrespectful. If a ll tried to say it did, imagine the uproar.

I think you are being very petty. You posted ages ago and you still haven't returned the deposit? You can't charge for mould or limescale, you say yourself that you live in a hard water area. You could charge to redecorate the small area of wall that has been drawn on, but is it really worth it?

Gosh I'm so shocked at these comments. I am a landlord and a tenant (re-located for work and not sure on timescales so renting /renting instead of selling/buying and to be clear we have not been re-located at employer's expense so costs of renting all our own on both sides).

Yes it is perfectly reasonable to expect a property left largely in the condition it was in when the tenancy started. I agree that all of the costs you have asked for are reasonable OP. I would ask for these as a landlord and would equally expect to pay them as a tenant. Exactly as holidaysarenice says - I wouldn't repaint my house every year were I living in it , nor would I expect a blind to break as part of normal wear and tear. My tenants paid for similar damage when they left my house.

Cleaning is another bugbear - they left the house dirty and then quibbled over the costs of professional cleaning. What was I to do? I was not near enough to go and clean the house myself and they had said they didn't have time to do it before leaving. I had new tenants moving in ten days later and obviously their home needed to be clean for them to move into - what is the solution other than charge the previous tenants for cleaning? It was clearly stated within their contract that they needed to leave it at the same state of cleanliness as was at the start of tenancy. I paid to have it cleaned before they moved in as I didn't have time to clean it myself after moving out - therefore I only expected of them what I had done myself. Yes the agency cleaning charge was really high but they were quite at liberty to find their own cleaners before they left (or do it themselves) which they didn't do.

Reallytired - despite having soft furnishings and white goods my house is considered unfurnished so I don't get the tax break but still need to maintain curtains, carpets, decoration etc. I only make about £200 "profit" per month on my house after paying agent and mortgage interest. All of that money so far has been spent on general maintenance (re-decorating, clearing guttering) and safety checks etc. Therefore I don't see why I should be out of pocket to provide a comfortable place to live for someone - that is what the deposit is for - to ensure that the property is put back to the same standard when the tenants leave - for the benefit of the next tenants as much as for me (the owner). I don't rent out my house to make a profit and nor do I make a profit - I suppose the only profit I would be making potentially is if the house prices rise and the tenants are effectively paying the interest on my related loan - they're not rising at the moment so moot point.

The only thing I'd say is make sure you have everything documented if you are going to TDS. We had terrible tenants who caused a lot of damage (thousands of pounds of repairs) and contested me withholding their deposit so it went to TDS. The agent 'forgot' to send all the receipts and quotes with the TDS so I only got half the deposit as the TDS really only got the check in and check out reports which didn't really show the scale of the damage (plus stupid things like the tenants insisted on having the house cleaned again before moving in and the agents didn't include that invoice, so I was told that I couldn't charge for cleaning). I don't know why they thought I asked them to get quotes returned before the TDS deadlines. Very annoying!

Having someone pay your mortgage is a huge income. Prehaps having a buy to let doesn't increase your short term disposible income, but most landlords make huge amounts long term. Certainly I have made a substantial amount money from buy to let. Its easy to forget that the tenant is paying the interest of the mortgage and in some cases the repayments. Even if a mortgage is interest only, inflation eats away at the true size of the loan.

Why else would I do it. I am not doing buy to let for charity. Landlords pleading povety has to be biggest load of bullshit on mumsnet.

"Reallytired - despite having soft furnishings and white goods my house is considered unfurnished so I don't get the tax break but still need to maintain curtains, carpets, decoration etc. I only make about £200 "profit" per month on my house after paying agent and mortgage interest. "

That is an excellent income for doing what is very little work. As rents increase your profit margin will increase over time. Before you whinge that you have to pay tax, people in employment pay tax as well.

Coil may I ask a question - sorry OP to hijack your thread!

We have been renting for 4 years and plan to be here another 6 months. The house needed painting before we moved in. Our children have drawn on the walls and in my efforts to try and remove some of the marks I have removed the paint. This is obviously our fault - the drawing and paint removal. Should I tell the managing agents now - or when we move out?

I would love to try and fix it myself but I think it would be a disaster if the paint isn't matched properly!

Also the cheap laminate wood flooring has been easily scratch by furniture and children's toys. Would the same rules about carpet apply to wood laminate flooring? Again it had been damaged by previous tenants, but we've made additional marks.

I am relieved that given the condition of the paint work when we moved in and the lenght of our tenancy we should not be hit will the full costs of the painting at least.

Thanks!

Agree with reallytired up to a point I think the landlord should swallow it and think of the long term gains. Normally family life can cause a bit of mould in a bathroom easy enough to remedy the drawing on teh walls is the tenants responsibility.I had our rental cleaned top to bottom oven and everything for about £135 I think that is a small price to pay for the investment you have PLUS I do think its hard to look at the house you have let with a fair eye as several years wear and tear does look bad and you don't notice it in your own house as much as you don't have pics etc to compare.

HahaHarrie What you have described is wear and tear. I would wait to see if your landlord tries to take your deposit and across that bridge when you come to it. Deposit protection schemes provide a good mediation service.

"Also the cheap laminate wood flooring has been easily scratch by furniture and children's toys. Would the same rules about carpet apply to wood laminate flooring? Again it had been damaged by previous tenants, but we've made additional marks.
"

Very much so.

The only tip I could give you is to stay for the full five years if possible. If you do stay for five years then repainting the house and replacing laminate flooring is the landlords responsibility. If you have to move out at 4 years and 6 months you might have to pay something, but certainly not the full amount. (Prehaps 20%)

being a landlord is a business. People run business to make money.

the screaming, vicious, ferocious hate for landlords on here is not given to those who sell useless beauty products, cutesy cakes, ridiculous fashion items etc etc etc. It seems that only renting property for money is a hanging offence on mumsnet.

most people do not wreck houses to the point that they need repainting every year. 3-5 years is more reasonable. Tenants should expect the same standards as homeowners - not better, certainly not worse, but the same.

hahaharrie - flooring does get worn and damaged by moving about on it, and it is not unreasonable for toys to be on the floor. This is probably why the property does not have super-expensive flooring as no-one does that for a family house. If you owned it, you wouldn't fit expensive flooring while your kids were small.

scribbling on walls is not wear and tear, BUT it is time for a repaint anyway. There is no magic about staying an exact five years, but if the place hasn't been painted in your time there and for a while before, it is time to re-do it. That is what anyone would expect in a house that is lived in.

however you should report as a matter of courtesy. If I was your landlord and you were planning to stay, I would say that it was (well-overdue!) time to repaint and work out a suitable time with you. However I would also ask you to stop your children scribbling on the walls.

clearly the place isn't that bad as you've lived there so long.