LL selling flat - what's our obligation?

[TheFantasticFixit]

Our (private) landlord, who is fairly decent has decided to out our flat on the market.

I've been both Landlord and tenant in this situation recently. As a tenant you don't have to allow any viewings at all regardless of what your contract says. We started to allow it with notice but found the EA to be unreliable and rude, like you I couldn't leave the house without tidying it and was fed up with them not telling me when viewings had been changed. Eventually once we'd handed in our notice, we refused all viewings there wasn't much the LL could do and the EA was huffy, but couldn't say much about it. When we sold our house with the tenant there, we suggested two set times a week and made sure our EA kept her informed. In the end the EA was on such a good footing with the tenant they ended up finding her somewhere new too, so it was win win for them.

Laughing eyes, I'm not sure what law you're referencing. A contract does have legal obligations (pursued via civil courts) but that is not ""

Bloody phone ...not "law" as in criminal law / police enforced. Sorry to be pedantic but I got this "it's the law" a lot and it isn't.

Laughingeyes, those words in a tenancy agreement are meaningless and many landlords do not realise that they have no automatic right to enter their property (24hrs notice or not) except in an emergency.

See the following post for a clear explanation.

www.regallettings.com/blog/?p=89

www.tenancyagreementservice.co.uk/what-is-a-tenancy-agreement.htm

Yes I am saying a tenancy agreement is a legally binding contract, however, as you pointed out, it must adhere to statutory law.

Breach of contract is, as I said, pursued through the courts, which as I pointed out takes time.

Not sure which part of all this you disagreed with?

So, to update: Estate agent is currently going very pleasant and understanding. Have arranged for one open day afternoon (although landlord tried to say 'for now'.. Er, no, that's it). Have another appointment for their floor planners to come round this week but other than that, that's it on the EA front.

LL however is being a protracted pain in the arse. He emailed me to say he would be coming over to do the paintwork over some damp and put up curtains. At 4pm in the afternoon. The day he requested fell on my DH birthday, timing a pain because of our plans and toddler tea and bed etc so after some umming and ahhing I emailed back to ask to change it. In a nutshell, he dug his heels in and gave me an alternative time of 7pm for him to do the work on the same day. Bloody ridiculous, so i said no - he replied that he would attend both Saturday AND Sunday for shorter times and then mentioned he needed to seal the damp stains before painting with a chemical spray. I'm bloody pregnant FFS.

I replied with a firm no, offered Sunday only, and he came today at 11.30.

Despite assurances the work would only take 25-30 minutes at most, he was here for two and a half hours. The spray sealant took two coats, and although I had asked that he close off the room he was working in (with open windows in there) he left it open on the second spray so the chemical smell has permeated the property. I can still smell it now. He didn't cover the work surfaces that he was spraying over so everything is covered in a fine white spray paint effect - that doesn't come off. 2 Chopping boards, glassware, plates, toddlers cups and milk bottles etc, all covered in the spray.

The curtains that he insisted on hanging ("they cost £250 so I WILL hang them when I visit to make the place nicer for viewings") in our bedroom are 5 inches too short and light comes in through from under them (I wish I could post a pic, it looks ridiculous, like half mast trousers).

Lastly, he's out plant pots out of the windows with pansy type flowers in. Which is all very nice, but who is expected to tend to them? And in this wet weather, does he actually expect them to survive?!

I'm so fucked off. I probably sound quite petty but the whole expectation that we will just tolerate this is out of control. 2 and a half hours and he's caused me stress, ruined my things, and given me work to do. Argh!

Send him a bill for the stuff he's damaged and refuse to deal with him until you move out. What a nob!

Why do people do this sort of thing? No wonder killing the goose that lays the golden eggs is such a powerful myth!

this is nuts - it is what, a fortnight until you leave?

tell him that you will accept no further visits (beyond the open day). You are perfectly entitled to do this. Also add that you are not responsible for his plants.

Yes, maybe even less than 2 weeks of our solicitor gets a move on! It's just ridiculous. I was so angry yesterday. He gave his keys to the estate agent so didn't have to love up the house, so my DH and our friend went out for lunch while I had to stay behind because his '5 minutes' turned into 30, and then an hour. I don't understand how someone cannot understand how disruptive that is.. On a SUNDAY! The flat is up for the most ridiculous price, over half a million, (WHAT has happened with London property?! Insane prices). It's an okay area but honestly, you would not walk in here and think value for money, that's for sure. The bizarre thing about the half mast curtains and plant pots is that there is actual maintenance that would be of more benefit to the property - the job splash back has slipped and needs refixing, the shower head is useless, there is an is due with the mixer tap that means you can only get hot water if you move the tap into a VERY specific position, the intercom doesn't work, the wireless doorbell rings at 2am.. The list is endless. But half mast curtains and some pansies will obviously make it all okay! Chumps.

Sorry, I'm really venting now. Just so bloody frustrated, but at least the end is in sight. Keep finding stuff with spray paint on which is keeping my annoyance levels high!

Special - he tried to 'tell' me yesterday that there would be more viewings after the open day - there won't as we will be moving that week and not here to give access in the day. So tough tits on that front. I'm also refusing any further 'maintenance for the sale' visits as well, he should have used his two and a half hours more wisely!

he should have used his two and a half hours more wisely!

A good and very reasonable comeback! No further need to accommodate any requests, as they act against your right to "quiet enjoyment" (which you're still paying for!), and, indeed, against his desire to sell the place, as who would be "tsken" with a property full of moving chaos, compoared to a property empty and cleaned for the end of a tenancy? (apart from the damp he was due to paint over, which would suddenly be visible )

take no prisoners, OP. I remain utterly baffled as to why he is making all this fuss when you are about to leave.

BTW as he appears to have gone bonkers, do make a quiet check on your deposit protection situation in case he gets vengeful on that. He will have NO LEG TO STAND ON, but do make sure you take photos on checkout and cover yourself fully.

Mentioning in an email that his spray ruined your things could also be helpful in any dispute, as he seems unlikely to respond to anything you say, meaning he won't dispute it now, and it further establishes the principle that you care about things and he either wrecks things (in this case, yours) or neglects them (his, the repairs you helpfully and responsibly flagged up for him).

Argh! Unfortunately, I'm back.

So.. Long story short - we moved out 2 weeks ago and on to our new home (which is great!) but the tenancy ends formally tomorrow. We have cleaned the flat as per the contract although have asked that the cost of the carpet cleaning is divided between us and the LL given that it transpires that they have held viewings in the 13 days since we left. Despite asking that we were kept informed of viewings taking place, as per the AST contract, neither the LL or the agent have done that.

We had the additional hassle of needing to give a set of our keys to the agent in order for them to have access to the property as the LL did not have a deadlock key - this was a 2 hour round trip!

We visited the property on Friday to take photos post cleaning and whilst there, an agent appeared with a couple to view, which we hadn't known about. Upon arriving, the front door wasn't deadlocked (the area is dubious and so we have always deadlocked, even when nipping to the shops. This was the reason for us making the two hour round trip for goodness sake!). We reminded the agent that they needed to let us know as the property was still tenanted and we were still responsible for it. They said that they had been told that they were now in possession of keys and it was vacant.

As I said, the tenancy ends tomorrow. Having not heard from the LL recently we emailed on Saturday morning and asked how the LL would like to organise the checkout. He has finally replied this evening asking us to post the last set of keys to him, and that he will conduct an inspection on next Saturday (so 5 days post end of tenancy) before then proceeding with the deposit process.

Surely this isn't normal? We've always had the inspection on the last day of tenancy, and the deposit process started immediately to be in line with the TDS rules of 10 days. He also appears to be suggesting that he will inspect on his own, without us in attendance, which I have never experienced and am greatly concerned about. And lastly, the agents will have access throughout the week for viewings - if any damage/ theft etc happened in those 5 days, how on earth would we prove on either side whose responsibility it is?

Any advice will be greatly received!

do you have anything in writing?
if not write an email to agency and ll saying that you will not accept deductions from the deposit due to them entering the flat repeatedly without your express permission.

Thanks Mousmous!

I have the email that we sent to the LL stating that we expect to be informed of any viewings that take place, and I have noted that this had not happened in my subsequent email on Saturday. I've now also replied to the LL to state our concern that the inspection will not take place for 5 days post end of tenancy in light of viewings taking place.

Can he actually delay the inspection? Will the TDS, if this results in the deposit being in dispute, acknowledge that we have refused deductions on these grounds then?

wrt to deposit don't worry too much. if the inventory was not by an independent party it will be very difficult for the ll to deduct anything.

He didn't actually do the inventory with us when we first went in, he sent it a couple of weeks later in the post so we didn't sign and return it as I was concerned that we were agreeing to something we hadn't been present for.

There is one thing that we are happy to be deducted from the deposit - my DH accidentally broke a plug socket covering when moving out so we would pay for that, but I'm really cross about the carpets which were very dirty from viewings that have taken place (we had a no outdoor shoes 'policy' when living there). They didn't clean the oven when we went in so we had agreed we would leave it unclean at the start of the tenancy.

I think this is all starting to sound a bit petty now really. But I'm so alarmed that the LL seems to be so oblivious to really very basic obligations. I'm due to give birth in 2 weeks and we really could do with the deposit money back ASAP and without further hassle!

Would you post the keys as he has requested?

no, never ever post keys. always in person and always signed for.

Ok. We won't. Can we do anything about this inspection and end of tenancy though? The LL seems to think it is all on his terms, and he lives an hour (in the opposite direction to us!) from the flat as well. He's had a months notice to sort out what he was going to do to finish the tenancy today, but hasn't.

Here is something about the effect of not having a valid inventory.

Sorry this aggro is continuing for you.

We had a similar situation when we moved out a week before official tenancy end. Went back the day before checkout and found painters in, who had got paint all over the carpet. We had not received any notice whatsoever.

To cut a long story short, we used the deposit protection scheme when the LL tried to claim and speedily got all our deposit back.

You don't need to be accommodating or reasonable, do what works best for you within the bounds of your legal rights and obligations. This isn't a friendship, it_'s a business deal, which your LL appears to have forgotten.

Bad situation for you... sure it’s normal that you feel concerned after hearing from your landlord this new especially when you are pregnant. But there is nothing to do here. It’s his property. BUT! Your landlord must make ALL reasonable efforts to agree with you on suitable days and times for buyer inspections!!! So without asking you he can’t come to the property with a potential buyer. Sure you also can’t unreasonably refuse inspection days and times. Before coming with a prospective buyer your landlord needs to give you 48 hours notice beforehand.

lost track a bit - did you give or receive correct written notice? What is happening with your protected deposit?