LL selling flat - what's our obligation?

[TheFantasticFixit]

Our (private) landlord, who is fairly decent has decided to out our flat on the market.

[caroldecker]

Personally i would deny anything and get your full deposit back - he hasn't a leg to stand on

[TheFantasticFixit]

You've confirmed my thoughts regarding the TDS, however, DH has just had a quote for £50 for an electrician to go with him tomorrow and sort it out. At least it would be done and there would be a receipt for the work. What do you think?

[HaveToWearHeels]

The man is an arse. I have changed all the sockets and light switches in my house from standard white to chrome, takes about 5 minutes a socket and I very much doubt he would even get an electrician to do the job, it wouldn't be worth their while. I doubt it would even come up on a survey. Raise a dispute and no longer communicate with this man.

[caroldecker]

It is only an issue if you admit it - there was no initial inventory, so he hasn't a leg to stand on.

From renternomad's link above:

What happens when you don't have an Inventory?
There have been a number of decisions by adjudicators under existing voluntary schemes which show that unless you follow these rules there is little or not chance of you recovering anything out of the deposit for damage. In any case, you must remember that a deposit will not cover fair wear and tear.

Likewise, decisions by District Judge in County Court small claims have also shown that unless you follow these procedures exactly, it is unlikely that you will be awarded any part of the deposit to make good any damage.

It is common for a tenant to claim that the damage already existed when the tenancy started. Unless you have proof of the state of the furniture/property at the beginning in the form of a properly prepared and agreed inventory/condition schedule you are unlikely to succeed

[specialsubject]

ok, to be accurate the TDS will follow their dispute procedure but I really cannot see them awarding him this much even if they decide in his favour.

you can do it all online and all the info is there.

yes, it is indeed a quick job as your partner thinks, but it is definitely time to step away now given that the LL does appear to have gone even more bonkers. Keep your photos and all documentation.

how boring!!

[specialsubject]

bloody hell.

don't do any work and do not return to the house. Raise a dispute yourself with the TDS, who will tell him where to go.

it does NOT cost £200 to get an electrician in to change a socket!!

[TheFantasticFixit]

So - update:

End of tenancy check took place on Saturday with DH there. Landlord was early so DH couldn't get in beforehand to change the socket. All agreed to be fine but socket is now a big issue. LL wants (sucks teeth) £200 for it. He reckons it is going to come up on his buyers survey on Wednesday. Will not refund deposit (despite 10 day rule) until the buyers survey has taken place and decided whether it is an issue or not. He wants to call an electrician out to change the socket 'due to live wires', but given there are issues in the flat with damp around light sockets etc I suspect that he will use the callout to do other work in the flat that is needed.

No quotes for work/call out fees have been provided to us. No dispute registered as yet by LL with the TDS.

DH has since arranged with the LL to go to the flat tomorrow and replace the socket - just had a sniffy email from the LL absolving himself of any liability - ie of electrocution etc and telling us to accept 'liability' that if it's not done 'properly' then we will pay to have it fixed.

Any advice? DH seems to think it's just a quick job of replacing the plastic cover and screwing new one? Or would we be better off just disputing the £200 with the TDS?

[HaveToWearHeels]

here here special really winds me up when we all get tarred with the same brush !

[specialsubject]

I am a landlord and those who do it wrong give the rest of us a bad name.

as someone has pointed out elsewhere, it is a business which means service and standards.

[HaveToWearHeels]

OP get your husband to turn up a bit early for the inspection and change the socket before LL gets there, very easy job to do.

[TheFantasticFixit]

Thanks Special. Your posts are super helpful and reassuring, I really appreciate it. Hopefully there will not be a need to resort to a dispute but I'm not convinced!

[specialsubject]

thanks for the update, it all sounds good. He received the notice so there's no arguing about that and your rent payments have now stopped.

any arguing about the deposit, just raise a dispute - you'll be fine. BTW a replacement socket is about £2 and it takes 10 minutes to fit. :-)

[TheFantasticFixit]

Thanks all - Renter that's really handy info, cheers.

Special - yes, we ended up giving a month notice in writing on 24th Jan because we hadn't wanted the hassle of the viewings etc (not that that stopped him!). The end of the tenancy was yesterday, 24th Feb. He acknowledged the notice received in writing by reply to our email. The focus since has only been on his sale, to be honest we've been treated as an irritation s opposed to a commitment that comes with obligations!

Despite the tenancy ending on 24th formally we had the opportunity to move earlier and so did so on 13th. We let him know it would be 'vacant' from then, although I reminded him that as our tenancy didn't end until the 24th we would store a couple of things there and would need to be kept informed of visits to the flat by himself or the agents as per the contract. The LL, it transpired, did not have a deadlock key for the front door and so after we had moved out, he asked that we give one set of our keys to the agent in order for the property to be kept secure, which we did (a 2 hour to hand trip, we must be mad!)

Neither he, nor the agents, informed us of any visits to the flat from 13th to 22nd, when we were at the property and the agent let themselves in whilst we were there with a couple of prospective viewers!

With regards to the deposit, when we moved in I had to remind him that it needed to be protected and it was put into a scheme. We have the paperwork for that. After a couple of weeks, he finally sent an inventory and asked us to sign it and return, which I didn't as it hadn't been done in our presence. I did email him to say that the oven was not clean when we moved in and o we would return it in the same state.

He is proposing to do the inspection on Saturday and won't budge on that. He has conceded that one of us needs to be there (my DH, as I will be a week away from ELCS!) now, and has said he is 'happy' for us yo hand over the keys in person if that's what we wish to do.

There may be two issues, on of which we are willing to pay for and that is a broken socket case. I think he will want to charge us for carpet cleaning but if he has allowed people to access the flat without our express agreement can he do this? There are number of marks on the carpet from wet, dirty shoes (the agent revealed they did another open day on 15th so I suspect it's from then). I know the odd mark on the wall is wear and tear, and the property was unfurnished so there's nothing yo worry about on that front.

Sorry for the essay! Your help is massively appreciated.

[specialsubject]

lost track a bit - did you give or receive correct written notice? What is happening with your protected deposit?

[Happymother77]

Bad situation for you... sure it’s normal that you feel concerned after hearing from your landlord this new especially when you are pregnant. But there is nothing to do here. It’s his property. BUT! Your landlord must make ALL reasonable efforts to agree with you on suitable days and times for buyer inspections!!! So without asking you he can’t come to the property with a potential buyer. Sure you also can’t unreasonably refuse inspection days and times. Before coming with a prospective buyer your landlord needs to give you 48 hours notice beforehand.

[docsarah]

We had a similar situation when we moved out a week before official tenancy end. Went back the day before checkout and found painters in, who had got paint all over the carpet. We had not received any notice whatsoever.

To cut a long story short, we used the deposit protection scheme when the LL tried to claim and speedily got all our deposit back.

You don't need to be accommodating or reasonable, do what works best for you within the bounds of your legal rights and obligations. This isn't a friendship, it_'s a business deal, which your LL appears to have forgotten.

[RenterNomad]

Here is something about the effect of not having a valid inventory.

Sorry this aggro is continuing for you.

[TheFantasticFixit]

Ok. We won't. Can we do anything about this inspection and end of tenancy though? The LL seems to think it is all on his terms, and he lives an hour (in the opposite direction to us!) from the flat as well. He's had a months notice to sort out what he was going to do to finish the tenancy today, but hasn't.

[mousmous]

no, never ever post keys. always in person and always signed for.

[TheFantasticFixit]

He didn't actually do the inventory with us when we first went in, he sent it a couple of weeks later in the post so we didn't sign and return it as I was concerned that we were agreeing to something we hadn't been present for.

There is one thing that we are happy to be deducted from the deposit - my DH accidentally broke a plug socket covering when moving out so we would pay for that, but I'm really cross about the carpets which were very dirty from viewings that have taken place (we had a no outdoor shoes 'policy' when living there). They didn't clean the oven when we went in so we had agreed we would leave it unclean at the start of the tenancy.

I think this is all starting to sound a bit petty now really. But I'm so alarmed that the LL seems to be so oblivious to really very basic obligations. I'm due to give birth in 2 weeks and we really could do with the deposit money back ASAP and without further hassle!

Would you post the keys as he has requested?

[mousmous]

wrt to deposit don't worry too much. if the inventory was not by an independent party it will be very difficult for the ll to deduct anything.

[TheFantasticFixit]

Thanks Mousmous!

I have the email that we sent to the LL stating that we expect to be informed of any viewings that take place, and I have noted that this had not happened in my subsequent email on Saturday. I've now also replied to the LL to state our concern that the inspection will not take place for 5 days post end of tenancy in light of viewings taking place.

Can he actually delay the inspection? Will the TDS, if this results in the deposit being in dispute, acknowledge that we have refused deductions on these grounds then?

[mousmous]

do you have anything in writing?
if not write an email to agency and ll saying that you will not accept deductions from the deposit due to them entering the flat repeatedly without your express permission.

[TheFantasticFixit]

Argh! Unfortunately, I'm back.

So.. Long story short - we moved out 2 weeks ago and on to our new home (which is great!) but the tenancy ends formally tomorrow. We have cleaned the flat as per the contract although have asked that the cost of the carpet cleaning is divided between us and the LL given that it transpires that they have held viewings in the 13 days since we left. Despite asking that we were kept informed of viewings taking place, as per the AST contract, neither the LL or the agent have done that.

We had the additional hassle of needing to give a set of our keys to the agent in order for them to have access to the property as the LL did not have a deadlock key - this was a 2 hour round trip!

We visited the property on Friday to take photos post cleaning and whilst there, an agent appeared with a couple to view, which we hadn't known about. Upon arriving, the front door wasn't deadlocked (the area is dubious and so we have always deadlocked, even when nipping to the shops. This was the reason for us making the two hour round trip for goodness sake!). We reminded the agent that they needed to let us know as the property was still tenanted and we were still responsible for it. They said that they had been told that they were now in possession of keys and it was vacant.

As I said, the tenancy ends tomorrow. Having not heard from the LL recently we emailed on Saturday morning and asked how the LL would like to organise the checkout. He has finally replied this evening asking us to post the last set of keys to him, and that he will conduct an inspection on next Saturday (so 5 days post end of tenancy) before then proceeding with the deposit process.

Surely this isn't normal? We've always had the inspection on the last day of tenancy, and the deposit process started immediately to be in line with the TDS rules of 10 days. He also appears to be suggesting that he will inspect on his own, without us in attendance, which I have never experienced and am greatly concerned about. And lastly, the agents will have access throughout the week for viewings - if any damage/ theft etc happened in those 5 days, how on earth would we prove on either side whose responsibility it is?

Any advice will be greatly received!

[RenterNomad]

Mentioning in an email that his spray ruined your things could also be helpful in any dispute, as he seems unlikely to respond to anything you say, meaning he won't dispute it now, and it further establishes the principle that you care about things and he either wrecks things (in this case, yours) or neglects them (his, the repairs you helpfully and responsibly flagged up for him).