Vendor refusing our offer despite having no others

[janeyjampot]

Just that, really. We have sold (STC) and have seen a house we like. We put in a low offer (-15%) but it was refused, which we expected. We raised our offer (-12%) and it was refused again. The vendors have indicated that they want an offer within 5% of the asking price.

Our problem with this is that the house has been on the market for 14 months and there have been no offers. The last thing we need is to pay too much for a house that is hard to sell! I asked our agent about the price and they suggested it was not worth more than our last offer. On the other hand, I have done one of those house price searches on Zoopla which suggests that the asking price is about right.

Another issue is that there is very little for sale in this bracket in the place we are looking. On one hand this looks like a plus for this house and suggests we should raise our offer - on the other you can't help wondering how it has been for sale for so long when other houses nearby go overnight...

Any advice would be greatly appreciated...

You have to think about what this house is worth to you.

The vendors may be in no rush to sell for less than they need, which is common with the older generation, who are wanting to sell for market rate. If they've no urgency to sell then they can afford to sit tight.

When it come to buying your home, you can't be too tied up in getting a bargain, we fell in love with ours, which went to closing date. We bid the price that we could afford, and would keep our deposit % in the right interest rate bracket.

We have no idea what the other bids were, and not want to know!

Basic supply and demand is going on here. If there is not much around you can buy something you don't like, something for more than you think it is worth or rent until the spring when there will be more of a selection.

If they are happy to stay there til they get the right price,as many of my clients used to be, then they will eventually sell. They are obviously in no hurry. Perhaps they have little or negative equity so simply need the asking price. If it's reasonably priced, within your budget and worth it to you then offer as much as you can is my opinion. No point missing a decent house that suits you if you will be stuck renting or waiting for another house to come up that you like.

Depends how much you need to buy right now this minute or indeed how much they need to sell. If they get a whiff of desperation from you they'll hold out.

Personally I'd walk nonchalantly away and let them stew on it and see who blinks first. We were in a similar situation last year. All offers from us refused.

The lady selling even took the house off the market and we thought that was that. Then 3 months later it came back on. We offered, she refused again. We backed right off and she came running after us.

It all takes some nerve though. The point is we had a budget. We love the house but not at a price that would leave us struggling.

Thank you, this is really helpful. DH is away on business for a fortnight so I think I am really lacking the opportunity to talk it through and hear different perspectives.

They don't have to sell it to you at all! i take it you haven't got to survey yet... You could raise your offer a little "subject to survey" and then reduce a bit when the survey is back (assuming it flags something up)

Weigh up how unusual the house is. Our buyers playe hardball by saying "we could get that one down the road for xx " and we wanted to say get lost and buy that one, then!.... But they raised their offer a bit and we decided we could afford to take it, meant we could get the house we wanted.
You do have the chain situation which may be putting them off: for all you know the "sympathetic" EA is whispering completely different sweet nothings in their ear about how they think you will crack soon.... The EA is Not Your Friend!!!

Yes careful what you say in front of the EA. Even if yours is different from theirs I do wonder whether local EA's aren't scratching each others backs sometimes. Just keep discussions about what you could really stretch to afford strictly between you and dh

Ignore Zoopla valuations (the ones that appear not the ones the 'request a free valuation' thing which I have no idea about.) They can be ridiculously low or seriously inflated depending on when the house was last sold and the property owner can actively inflate the price by adding details of work done.

If they have sat there for 14 months with no offer, they will probably keep sitting there waiting for the market rise to their expectations. Tell them that's your final offer and look elsewhere.

This is why the house has been on for 14 months. In an area where very little is for sale it is hard to fathom what's fair. Roughly what price bracket are you talking about? I would be tempted to offer 10% less and say that's it.

If you really love the house, can see yourself in it for years and can afford to up your offer then do so.

It does sound like they want to hold out but if your offers are realistic they'll do no better from anyone else. They need to come to that realisation or wait for the market to change (which could take some time.) It's getting late in the house selling 'season' now, why not wait and see what comes up next Spring when you'll have more chice and they'll have more competion?

I do sympathise it's so frustrating but each time you up that offer you could be setting yourself back the price of a new kitchen or bathroom or whatever you feel really needs doing in there.

Thank you. I think one of the problems for me is that it is so different to the house we are in now that it's hard to know if we can see ourselves in it forever. At the moment we live on a small estate at the edge of a small town. The house we have made an offer on is close to the city centre in a small city. In truth I don't think we would stay in it forever but I don't see prices falling in this location to the degree that they have in the surrounding areas. We feel that if we ever want to live in this place (which is where our DDs go to school) we probably need to do it now as the gap is widening.

The house is unusual in that others in the street are much smaller. Also the next street, which is the main road, is very popular and a similar house would sell for much more very quickly. We couldn't afford a house on the main road of this size.

Northern the price bracket is around £400,000 if that helps. The asking price is £440k, our agent (not their agent :) ) thinks it's worth £395k.

I've never underpaid on a house. It's worth what it's worth to you. The problem with these tv programmes is that everyone feels they should try their luck and offer under.

If it's worth the asking price than offer close to that. You could leave the offer on the table and continue looking if you are not so bothered?

If you really want the house it is well worth remembering the Vendor does not have to sell to you at any price and at any stage until after exchange of contracts.
So if they are not desperate and you annoy them...

Also, don't assume people are willing to drop the price after survey.
You could just be wasting time & money having a survey done if you are depending on this to get the property within your budget.

The vendors may be happy in their home and need a certain minimum figure to move out to somewhere they want to go.

We saw this from the other side when we were selling. Lower price bracket, but similar situation.

We loved our house. We had it on for what we felt was a fair price, based on what similar properties nearby had actually sold for not just a valuation. We didn't price high to be knocked down, and we told people that.

However, it seemed that people felt that they were entitled to knock off at least 10-15% just because of the market. We had one guy who went round the house pricing all the work he wanted to do and wanted that amount off. Our view was that most of it was unnecessary, and that which was needed had been priced in already.

Put simply, at the kind of discount people wanted, we'd have held onto it, rented it out and adjusted our own purchasing budget accordingly (we needed to relocate, so did need to move). Had we not been in any hurry to move - like, for example, a middle aged couple who just fancy downsizing- we'd have been even less keen.

A house isn't just worth what someone will pay (as purchasers are wont to believe). If the amount they will pay is less than it is worth to the vendor, then unless it's a forced sale the vendor simply won't sell.

Also, in this market being on the market for ages can simply be bad luck and self-fulfilling. I saw identical houses round our old area go it two days or languish for 18 months for no apparent reason (and it wasn't survey, because they never got as far as offers).

Oh yes, please don't assume you can knock masses off for the survey. We knew that our survey would bring up one particular damp patch that needed dealing with. We accepted an offer assuming that we'd agree to knock off the price of that work (we didn't hide, it was just minor and not that obvious.) It came up, and we agreed.

Had they come back with tons of other stuff then we would not have been so obliging. Everything else that came back was obvious from the age and condition of the house (e.g. part had a flat roof, flat roofs have a finite life span and ours was about half way through). We'd have walked away if massive reductions were requested at that point.

40k is a big drop in a price. I wouldn't accept that kind of drop unless I was desperate.

At that price range 10% is a big chunk of cash. I suspect they're thinking in those terms not percentages. I wonder if £415 k would be close enough to compromise on?

£45,000 is a lot of money to ask off. I was thinking they are probably looking for £415-£420k.

They don't want to sell at the price you're offering. It doesn't matter whether they're being greedy, delusional, need the money, or just genuinely believe their house is worth this.... it is entirely up to them.

And it's certainly better that they don't accept a lower offer and then demand an extra £20K when you're about to exchange contracts.

Either offer the extra money, or walk away from this house.

frustrating, but they're not obliged to sell!

We made an offer 50k under asking of £550K and it was accepted some weeks later. The agent called and tried to get us to up our offer. We couldn't because we simply didn't have the money.
I think look at the maximum you are willing to pay within reason and make your offer and leave it at that. In my experience the agent will be telling the vendor to hold their nerve hoping you'll continue to up your offer. And be willing to walk away.

I think vendors can be delusional though..... I have just bought a place and a new neighbour told me that the vendor "had to sell it for half nothing". I was a bit . When I was in the process of buying this place another agent was telling me what I'd need to offer to outbid offers on two other very similar properties and those amounts were less than what the vendor got for the place I'm in. So they were deluding themselves believing they let it go for less than market value but still, it was their home, they didn't have to accept the offer.

I agree that it feels like a big drop. However, I think 14 months is a long time to sit it out with no offers. We've accepted a drop of about 7% on our asking price in order to get a sale and we only had ours on the market for a couple of months. That's the reality of the market where we are.

I can't see a reason why it hasn't sold other than the price. With nothing comparable it's hard to say, but if it had been underpriced it would surely have sold by now when there is so little available in this bracket. More expensive houses are going overnight.

Thanks for all your comments. I think I am coming round to thinking I don't want it at any price. I'm nervous enough about the market and the future without worrying that we are buying something that may drop drastically in price or be difficult to sell in future.

If someone has sat on the market for 14 months then they are not very keen to sell!!

These are the worst to put a lowish offer on IMO, I image they're older and downsizing and refusing to sell their 'nest egg' for a penny less than they think they deserve. There have been a lot of houses stuck on the market like that round here. They do sell...eventually, when someone comes up with the right price.

You've had very good advice here, just decide the maximum it is worth to you and put in a take it or leave it final offer.