Vendor refusing our offer despite having no others

[janeyjampot]

Just that, really. We have sold (STC) and have seen a house we like. We put in a low offer (-15%) but it was refused, which we expected. We raised our offer (-12%) and it was refused again. The vendors have indicated that they want an offer within 5% of the asking price.

Our problem with this is that the house has been on the market for 14 months and there have been no offers. The last thing we need is to pay too much for a house that is hard to sell! I asked our agent about the price and they suggested it was not worth more than our last offer. On the other hand, I have done one of those house price searches on Zoopla which suggests that the asking price is about right.

Another issue is that there is very little for sale in this bracket in the place we are looking. On one hand this looks like a plus for this house and suggests we should raise our offer - on the other you can't help wondering how it has been for sale for so long when other houses nearby go overnight...

Any advice would be greatly appreciated...

What about getting a survey and valuation done and adjusting your offer based on that?

Sorry, just realised 'at any price' is a bit ambiguous. I mean that we should decide what we'll pay and offer it, then walk away, not that we absolutely don't want it.

I'm really grateful for the advice I've received. I didn't expect so many people to respond.

I agree with Penguins. It doesn't really matter whether you or your agent think the price is wrong, its what the vendors think. Every man and his dog could tell them the house is worth £395k but its their house and therefore their decision as to whether they decide to accept the offer. What did you base your offers on?

I think you also need to factor in that you've sold your property STC. If you miss this house because you won't increase to a level thats acceptable to the vendor, are there others that you could proceed on, or will you lose your sale? Just something to factor into the equation.

Its a tricky situation to be in!

This is exactly the situation we were in two years ago. We looked at a house, thought it was overpriced, so put in a cheeky offer. It was refused. We waited a few months, looked around for something else, couldn't find anything so went back with a better, but still quite low, offer. Refused again. The owners had already dropped the price and were retirement age and clearly not in a hurry, so we went away and did our homework.

It was at the height of the recession and prices in our town had stagnated, but not really fallen. We researched what other houses nearby had sold for in the last 12 months, took into account the work we planned to do on the house (it was dated and ugly), and took a bit of a punt on the fact that house prices would probably go up once the country started to come out of recession. In the end, we paid the minimum that the vendors were willing to accept (which was £40k lower than the house had started out for sale at 16 months previously), and we were okay with that - particularly now that house prices in our town have climbed quite a bit. Zoopla and MousePrice are two useful websites for trying to figure out what a house is really worth.

So you took a 7% discount but you are thinking longer on the market should mean that they accept a bigger discount?

I'm sorry, it just doesn't work that way, unless the vendor is in a forced sale. We'd have been willing to take around about 5% (though actually, we were thinking of an amount, not a percentage), and we felt the same after a month as we did after 12 months. Actually, after 12 months we ended up in a bidding war with offers over asking... It wasn't about how long it had been on- there aren't many buyers about so a lot is luck of what the right one comes along.

If it was underpriced, or course it would sell. Everyone likes a ridiculous bargain.

By the way, how do you know there have been no previous offers, did the agent tell you? Do you know that they know their facts? I heard someone telling a viewer that we'd had no offers when in fact we had had, and turned down, two or three at that point.

As you have sold STC, factor in what you'll do if you don't buy. There are costs to all the other options: losing the sale, renting, etc.

My first thought is how do you know, for certain, that there have been no other offers?

I am wondering if there have been & the survey has thrown up something really dire & people have walked away or the vendors have refused to drop the price to accomodate this.

You may also have really irked them with your 5% under asking price offer - I'm not saying that you are annoying but there is nothing stranger than sellers!

I always used to compare with other sold prices in the area before making an offer, trying to established what is the actual value of a house of interest. Never worked out! Either I can't bargain, or I have been unlucky, my what I thought reasonable offers have never been accepted. The lowest accepted was 96% of asking price with a big reluctance, only because the vendor had found somewhere to buy and wanted to move.

One house I looked at did not sell for a year - I thought is there anything wrong with it - no, the vendor only wanted a certain amount which most (including myself) thought was unreasonable. They got it in the end minus 1k ((perhaps knocked off after survey).

Don't compare with other sold prices. Look if you want to live there for many years, if you will regret if you don't buy it, if you really love the house - that's the value for you.

Please don't use the zoopla estimated price!!! I live in a 2 bed character cottage which is worth about 180k but according to zoopla its worth 120k as it is comparing it to the 2bed new builds down the road!!
If this house is surrounded by different types of properties that are worth more it will skew the estimated price!

And TBH, if someone offered me 15% (or even 12%) under what I wanted I'd tell them to do one!!

We only have their agent's advice that there have been no other offers. They could be wrong but it wouldn't be in their interest to say there had been no offers if they knew that there had been offers, I guess. They also said there had been little interest in viewing it.

Valuing a house is a difficult task, especially if there are no similar ones selling. When we had ours valued (and there are 2 identical ones on the estate) the agents suggested a range of prices. In the end the agent we went with suggested a price and we agreed to lower it if there was insufficient interest at that level. My point is that agents lower prices to generate more interest. If a house has been on the market a long time without obvious defect that suggests to me that it's overpriced. I'm not vastly experienced in buying and selling houses though (hence my request and gratitude for advice!).

You are right to stick to what you think is fair. Who knows about the price, maybe you are wrong and maybe the vendors are wrong, but you have plenty to lose by paying too much - if you don't think it's worth it, don't pay and keep looking.

We walked away from a house like this last year and found a better house a few weeks later. (which we were happy to pay more for!)

It's called negotiation. :)

Janey thats absolutely correct. Yes, generally speaking, a house that has been on the market for a long time without being sold may be overpriced. Thats the numbers side of it.

The difficulty is that it looks like the vendors are well aware of the numbers and it doesn't matter. Unless the agents are doing a really poor job, they will have advised the vendors of that, and encouraged them to drop the price. If they haven't, it means they are not in a hurry to move and are holding out for an offer closer to the asking price.

As everyone has said, it's their decision. If they haven't changed their mind on the advice of their agent, they're not likely to change it on the suggestion of Mr & Mrs Potential Buyer that its overpriced.

Sorry!

Yes, a house might be overpriced. But it might not, this market is difficult. There aren't many buyers. That means that even a house which isn't overpriced can wait quite a while for the right buyer. And buyers are easily spooked - particularly by period properties.

Also, if a house is hard to value, in this market people are super cautious and the purchasers can be discounting more heavily for certain features than they would in a healthier market. When we bought our last house, lack of sash windows was irrelevant to asking price. By the time we sold, in a dead market, it had become relevant.

I think the other factor may be that the vendors are waiting for the government mortgage help system kicks in.

A lot of people are predicting a bubble on the back of this.

They may not want to be kicking themselves come January/February.

they might not accept any offer from you now, if they are like my parents!

Decide what its worth to you. If they want price -5% then is it worth 420 to you?

If yes. Offer it.
If not, wall away and forget it.
If they have waited 14 months they are in no rush.

Right, I have put in a 'final' offer and am steeling myself for another rejection. In the meantime I shall get back onto Rightmove and keep looking. I'll let you know what happens. Thank you for all the advice.

Good luck Janey!

Good luck but you can understand why they are reluctant to except as the vendors were told it was worth 440 by an estate agent who has told you it is worth 395.