How low can we go?!

[flow4]

Here's an odd one... Went to see a house yesterday... The owner showed us round and was very chatty... He told us they've lost two sales and are now desperate very keen to move... He also said, at least twice, "Don't be afraid to make a very low offer"...

It's very pleasant and I might well be tempted, tho it's in an area I hadn't considered before (but that's a whole other thread!)... It's on at £150k, and my absolute max budget is £140k...

So, if a vendor gives you such clear encouragement to offer low, just how low can/should you go?!

How far is it from your current area? Would it mean a change of schools and stuff like that?

Thanks Sausage and Jayne :)

I have been toying with the idea of going in under SDT - but that does seem very cheeky for a house that is really very pleasant and doesn't seem to have anything significant wrong with it!

It probably would mean a change of school... DS2 would need to meet people and make friends who live locally... We could keep him at his current school for a while, but it's out of catchment, cross-country, and would mean a drive in the wrong direction for my work.

Took DS1 to see it today. He liked it too. We all like it. :) Good size. Nicely done up. Lovely open plan kitchen/diner/conservatory. Lovely big garden that isn't really overlooked. No cracks or visible flaws anywhere!... They say they have a document 'signing off' the conservatory... It's leasehold not freehold, but with over 950 years still to run, and the council is the freeholder...

It's just in an area I don't know, and I've never lived in a suburb before - it's almost half a mile to the nearest shop!

I think I will offer on it... I wish it wasn't the bank hol so I could run the leasehold thing past my solicitor... I really am not very good at making these big decisions by myself!

A 950 yr lease means it's an effective Freehold - just check if you have to pay any ground rent or any other annual charges (will be very low/possibly not even demanded), but it's not a problem until you get to sub 100 years really.
Good luck!

Oh, and I would definitely make a very cheeky offer - start at 110k. They can say no and you can go up......

Thanks Panic. They say the ground rent is £4/year. (Obviously I'd need to confirm that). And really? That low? That's £40k and over 25% below asking price. I don't know whether I've got the nerve!

Does anyone know whether it's possible to check actual sales prices by a wider area than postcode? I'd like to know what 3 bed semis are going for in our town as a whole, rather than just this street, where not much has sold and house types vary massively, so it's hard to compare.

I'd go in at £125k. If they are keen to sell they are going to drop the price soon if they do they'll be nearer stamp duty threshold and no doubt accept a stamp duty threshold offer. Its also not so far off what they paid so less painful for them to just accept. If they are begrudgingly happy with the offer they're more likely to behave well during the sale process.

The other thing is if you're not in a rush offer the amount you've decided and say if the vendor declines you'll leave it on the table but you'll keep looking. Be firm thats what its worth to you. Its very easy to find yourself quickly upping £5/£10k very quickly and thats money it takes a long time to save.

Waiting to hear what you offer and what happens!

Thanks Mis. Their asking price was £165k last year, and for a long time. They dropped to £150k in Feb/Mar... I think I will go in at £125k, but it's a hard call. There are plenty of other similar but less-nice houses on at/around the same price - at £130-170ish. But it's quite hard to see how many of them are actually selling, and for what price...

I think my confidence is being weakened by my experience over the last few months... I had an offer of £127.5k rejected on a house that's (still) on the market for £132, and was gazumped after my £118 offer was accepted on a house on for £120k... I don't want a third purchase to go wrong!

Ha! Well, I've ignored everyone's advice and gone with my instincts, and offered £130k. The EA has told me she doesn't think they'll accept under £140k, and I've said "Well, I don't think I'd be prepared to go that high, so put it to them, and they've got the bank holiday to think about it"... So have I, of course!

Well done. You have to feel comfortable with what you're offering. Thats the most important thing.

So having hinted you don't think you'll go to £140k but not flatly said you wont....they'll possibly try for more. Are you up for a no i'll leave £130k on the table I've found a few more similar properties that I've yet to arrange viewings for response?

If you can hold back for a day or two, if they try for more, it doesn't then stop you going back at £140k. If its been on the market over a year its not being snapped up so you do hold the cards.

They came back to me quickly, rejecting £130k. The EA said they wanted £140k, which was the offer they accepted before. I said I wasn't going to increase my offer, and I'd leave it on the table over the bank hol... So basically doing what you suggested, Mis. :) The knowledge that they accepted £140k 9 months ago is useful, partly because I know they'd go for that, and partly because the local market is probably a little bit down on that, so I have a clue that a lower offer now isn't unreasonable.

Now I just need to distract myself til Tuesday!

Its all go. Nerves of steel needed now. Plan how you could spend each and every of the £10,000 pounds to help you hold than nerve. Thats a nice kitchen and bathroom, nice new car and a holiday, retiring a year or more earlier if invested!

I think I will too mirai :) I need to, really, so please keep all your fingers crossed for me!

At the risk of being a party pooper, you don't get that £10k. Unless you're a cash buyer of course. If you're still keeping your ltv ratios it just means a lower mortgage and a little bit more cash for you if you keep it out of the transaction. One reason why I'm not much of a haggler as it doesn't seem worth the bother for the fairly minimal change in mortgage repayment.

Fingers crossed for you though

Thanks Last. I have a large deposit, and my LTV is currently lower than it could be, so I can hold on to some of that deposit if it would be useful. The house I got guzumped on needed loads of work, so I got a mortgage approved that enabled me to keep some of the deposit to do all of it. This house doesn't need work, but I would like to install a downstairs loo if I can - I have arthritis and stairs can be difficult - so I'm keen to pay as close to £130k as poss, cos then I can afford that...

Wonder if you will get any good news tomorrow. Are you just going to wait and see if they accept the offer after all?

Check out www.home.co.uk and www.mouseprice.co.uk for the sort of stats you were after upthread. I wasted almost all evening after discovering it last night!
Good luck for the offer.

It's very good of you to be thinking of me Jayne! :)

I am half-hoping they'll accept my offer after a w/end of reflection, yes... :)
But I am also driving myself slightly potty with worrying about the conservatory... (See my other thread ). I'm trying to work out the implications of the fact that it almost certainly doesn't comply with building regs... And I don't know whether that matters, or how much... And it's a BH weekend, so of course I can't ask my solicitor...

Thanks Misty!

Flow, we've been in limbo so long over our house move I've taken to living vicariously through other people's house stories!

Regarding the door into a conservatory thing. If a conservatory is something like maximum 3m deep, seperated from the house by a door and has a heating system independant of the house/ isolatable it meets regs. Often over time doors get removed. see here for conditions that make them building regs exempt

Our latest house purchase, hopefully one we stay in this time, has had its door removed. We've put one in. We've DIY'd. This and the door frame. Total cost under £100. If you got a company in and go for arched glass window at the top and standard glass external door under plus making good I expect it would be about £1000.

The main reason for a door is heat loss concerns in winter - its the sort of thing that you could try for a year. An alternative, not building regs compliant but very effective, is heavy ceiling to floor curtains. I did that in a previous house it made a huge difference.

Your solicitor could ask the sellers to get an indemnity policy for you. basically an insurance incase the local authority ever had a clamp down (pretty unlikely as there are a humongous number up and down the country like this). Or build the cost of putting a door in into your numbers - either as a further point of negotiation down the line, something I'm personally not keen on in the English system, or to go back if they don't accept the £130k on the table and be able to say 'no i'm not shifting because I'm aware of various make good items that are going to have potential future outlay like the door to conservatory.'

I hope you get some news today.

Thanks Mis. I've updated on my other thread, so I won't bore everyone with the details again! The doors will be relatively easy to sort... The bigger issue is the foundations, which need inspecting to make sure they won't collapse. Looks like the vendors may be sorting retrospective building reg approval...