help wording objection to neighbours planning proposal

[annoyednow]

Is anyone experienced in planning or gone through the process of an objection? My attached neighbour is proposing an extension astride our common boundary of a semi-detached house with garden in the greater London area. Not inner city.

Their house is 3 metres longer at the back. So although it was built originally like this it effect is equivalent to a two storey extension of 3 metres over ours. This in entirely a party wall (even the bit that sticks after our house).

The proposed extension is a single storey tapering tiled roof with two slylight windows starting at a height of 3.8metres and sloping to 2.3 metres. It is 4 metres long. The entire back of the extension opens to the air by folding glass doors.

The surveyor said they have a right to build up to the boundary and could gain access to our garden to do this. This would involve disturbing a thickly planted area of very old woody wisteria. About half or metre in from the area they would be working on is an garden pond with newts for sure but also other froggie things. It is an established amphibian habitat. He said they would put a wooden hoarding up.

The thing is I don't want somebody working on my garden and taking things up. Also, this is not just a once off. Once a building is up that can only be maintained from my side, it would create a situation where they would have a de-facto easement and right to enter my property and keep destroying this area in perpetuity. I do not this burden created on my property.

It would also block the morning sunlight from the back of the house.

I am making points of objection. Can anyone tell me if they are valid or point out anything useful?

Height, nearness and length overpowering. It would altogether create a roughly 7 metres house wall down the attached side of a semi-detached property. I have not seen anything similar on local properties and don't know if there are any guidlines on too much length overall.

The property not being completely built or maintained from their side is potentially creating a nuisance and threat to our established garden and peaceful enjoyment of our property. It would restrict us on that side. Also would close foundation and footings affect our pond. There were no cross sections of foundation in drawings.

Would the completely opening doors cause a noise problem. It's like removing the back of the property. It is a conservation area and we have jutting out french doors. Would the upward noise of slylights cause proplem in bedrooms.

I know people can build up to the boundary wall. But this is not knightsbridge. It is semi-d land in suburbs. Also each case is different and are there any merit in planning to mine.

I also have palm trees and an apple tree near the proposed extension.

The drew incorrect boundary lines in drawings despite correctly outlined site location map. Does this invalidate the application. I hope so as I was so worried about the boundary I am only now looking at the actual development. Also, inconsistencies on application form. Less than one week for submission based on this application.

Can I truly asses this drawing based on incorrect boundaries?

Please help and sorry for annoying long post.

Anyone at all?

i don't know - bumping for you.

there is a planning officer who occasionally comes on here. MarjorieBanks i think, or something similar.

Do ou have a link to te planning application it might be easier to read your post with the drawings.

Hi. I'm a planner but I don't deal with residential very much. There is a full MN planning team nowadays but chances are they arent reading the boards at the moment.

I'm on my way out but if you want to pm me the local authority and the application number I'll take a look tomorrow for you

The incorrect boundary lines unfortunately don't invalidate the application. Our old neighbours put in a planning appl and indicated on it that half of our drive was theirs. We immediately rang the council, expecting like you that would invalidate it, but all that happened was they were asked to redraw it.

Sabriel, Did you then get three weeks to assess the correct re-drawing. Was it astride a boundary?

Also, the letter I received from the council said the application could be downloaded or viewed in the planning office. The downloaded version is devoid of some details marked on the hard copy in council. It does not give height and distances in some drawings and I only found out they had this information on original but their computer system or something couldn't replicate it when I rang to enquire about this.

It does not state in letter that one is inferior to the other. Am annoyed about this as this affect evaluation.

I'll answer the specific objection points you made in your OP but I can't be specific without seeing the application details. Hopefully it will give you some pointers

Height, nearness and length overpowering. It would altogether create a roughly 7 metres house wall down the attached side of a semi-detached property. I have not seen anything similar on local properties and don't know if there are any guidlines on too much length overall. There will be local guidance notes and design guidance. They should be available on the council's website. This is a valid objection and you need to stress the way in which the development will adversely impact your property.

The property not being completely built or maintained from their side is potentially creating a nuisance and threat to our established garden and peaceful enjoyment of our property. It would restrict us on that side. Also would close foundation and footings affect our pond. There were no cross sections of foundation in drawings. I can't help on this as I have no idea whether there would be any ongoing maintenance requirement. Likewise I can't tell whether your pond would be affected by works. What sort of newts are they? If they are Great Crested Newts then they are protected, smooth newts aren't. It's worth mentioning.

Would the completely opening doors cause a noise problem. It's like removing the back of the property. It is a conservation area and we have jutting out french doors. Would the upward noise of slylights cause proplem in bedrooms. I can't imagine any situation where this would be taken into account. It's a residential area. There will be very little difference between the noise levels from a completely opening door and an open back door. The suitability of the design for a conservation area is another matter and that's a judgement that I can't make. I wouldn't mention the noise issue though

I know people can build up to the boundary wall. But this is not knightsbridge. It is semi-d land in suburbs. Also each case is different and are there any merit in planning to mine. Each case is indeed taken on its own merits and it may well be that what is proposed is unsuitable in terms of it's impact on your property or its appearance overall.

I also have palm trees and an apple tree near the proposed extension. You can mention these but they are garden trees and standard conditions would probably protect them. Depending on where you are in the country you may find that the conservation team may be glad to see your palms go!

The drew incorrect boundary lines in drawings despite correctly outlined site location map. Does this invalidate the application. I hope so as I was so worried about the boundary I am only now looking at the actual development. Also, inconsistencies on application form. Less than one week for submission based on this application. No the application is not invalidated but you should inform the case officer asap so that corrections can be made or appropriate notice given. If your land is affected then you will be notified as owner

Can I truly asses this drawing based on incorrect boundaries? Yes - you already have and you will be able to include the error in your representation

You do have some relevant planning issues to raise as an objection but be careful to focus on those as that is what will be taken into account. It's worth asking the planning offficer to come and look at the proposal from your point of view but they may not do this

Would help to have slightly more details on the project - and then easier to word a response.

Can I recommend that you choose a specific objection (i.e. the one with the most validity/weight) and follow-up on that.

If you sound like you are throwing every possible barrel-scraping objection into the discussion then your 'better' objections will be drowned out and you will come across as a 'NIMBY'

As was said on your other thread, ring the case officer.

There was quite a bit of initial advice there.

As I understand it, your neighbours have no right to carry out any works (eg foundations) that actually come onto your garden.

Not sure about your previous point about the fact that you 'own' part of their existing wall - you'd need a party wall surveyor to advise you on that - and as its party wall stuff, you should be able to get them to pay for independant party wall advice for yourself.

mistlethrush,

the case officer is out sick and no one else seems to be able to help me. They say the 'case officer will deal with and determine that'. Unfortunately, I only have until the 21st to submit application so cannot take the chance on it being invalidated or new drawings having to be submitted. I may end up having no submission on file if the case officer does neither of these things.

As their house is longer than ours, some of the party wall is external to our house and we did not know for sure if it was the side wall of their house or an extension of the party wall. We did get a party wall surveyor out to clarify this and they confirmed it was a party wall. I suppose it is more correct to say it is our side of the party wall. Wide old fashioned fascia, soffit and guttering overhang the external party wall and they used this as the boundary line. They did the same the other side onto the pavement. They have a corner property.

Consent has not been given for any development yet as it is still with the Council planners, so we are not in the official party wall award area yet so cannot get them to pay for a surveyor. We will be if they get permission, but we would hope planning consent will be for a modified extension so it won't intrude on us as much.

The party wall surveyor said if they get planning permission they can build right up to the boundary and take up the fence and work from our side. They do have the right to put something under the ground on our side (foundation or footing) and this is where my pond comes in.

This is why my objection to the planning office of the council is so vital and must contain good planning reasons against the development up to the boundary of which one side can only be built and maintained from my garden. They can only build what they get planning permission for.

Too right I don't want to create a new easement on my property for private development. I don't know who or what I could have to deal with in the future. The applicant bought the property earlier this year. It had been a rental, was empty for about a year before purchase and is still unoccupied. I don't know if it will be rented out or sold. I don't know the owner as she and her partner have just visited a few weekends. We are strangers really but they had kept inviting us to see their work. There is nothing to indicate it will be occupied during the building work. I don't know who will actually be living there in the future. If it is to be an investment property, sold on or a home for applicant.

Not submit application, meant objection to application.

rcheshire, I do not know which holds more weight. Because of the incorrect boundary line, and lack of measurements on downloaded version of drawings I have not had/will not have time to really think about it. So I want to throw the book at it.

As Jins said, there's likely to be a guide to what is reasonable in terms of extensions available from your Council. You could look on their planning department, try to get to something that says policy or local development framework and look for 'other guides' or supplementary planning guidance etc - and look for things that suggest design or housing design or house extensions.

It is not acceptable to put forward something that requires an overhang over your property - and it is perfectly reasonable to say that you're not prepared to accept that - the planning officer should ask them to resubmit proposals that don't require this - although its not that critical to planning.

Where do the rooflights face - your garden? If so complain re potential noise etc.

Don't bother about the doors leading out onto their garden - not much you can do about that.

Overbearing development is something that should be considered - what height will the wall be? Is it on the southern side of your garden - if the northern boundary, it won't affect sunlight but on any other it will do. These are valid planning concerns. Length of extension is also of relevance - particularly when combined with height.

Ok, the roof lights are up upwards, I think. But as it is a close ground floor extension, do you think there could be any upward noise concerns towards bedrooms. The extension is on our western boundary.

When I rang the council, they said the extension was from 3.8 to 2.4 metres in height (all this not marked on downloaded maps). It is 4 metres in length. I do not know if this from their curved french door porch area or from their back wall. But it is an extension from a house wall already nearly 3 metres from our house creating a building line of nearly 7 metres viewed from our side. This is what makes it like the 'Lubyanka' for us. The extension added to the original 3 metres extra length. If the 3.8m map not seem too high, but when it starts 3 metres down our garden, it is very imposing. Looking at some of houses on os map, there are hardly any extensions and those are not along attached boundary of the semi-d's. Most of the other houses are identical in length though.

Is there nothing about their being unable to build or maintain it from their own property?

What about the folding glass doors at back practically opening the entire back area. This is a conservation area and narrow twin french doors in the original houses. Could it be out of character?

I would love to post maps, but don't want to 'out' myself.

Your objection will cause the aplication to be considered by committee rather than delegated powers. From bitter experience I know that councillors can and will be swayed by emotional arguments in spite of their officers' advice.

The party wall surveyor can act for both of you if agreeable. His duty is to the Act not individuals (something which few people appreciate) and there is a great advantage in only using one surveyor. Your neighbour must make reasonable provision for making good after the work - a good surveyor will take acount of all the factors.

Although it is quite reasonable for foundations to oversail boundaries - allowing for the fact that establishing exact boundaries is almost never possible) roof overhangs are not usally permitted. If so, use this as part of the objection.

Access to your land for repairs is acceptable however the extension must be designed to minimise sthe need and the surveyor should take this into account as well i.e. low maintenance materials and finishes. The application should be specific and if not use this as part of your objection.

Easements aren't created that easily speak to your solicitor about this.

You won't get measurements on downloaded drawings because they are drawn to scale. If measurements are marked on them it's unusual.

I think the major objection is the scale of the development and the fact that it will be overbearing.

The noise issue I wouldn't bother with personally and the folding glass doors although out of character may not be unacceptable. Design is a very big factor in conservation areas and that will be looked at closely. If you want to say it's out of character then you can certainly do so.

You don't have to post details here. If you want more detailed advice from the fully qualified planners posting on this thread then you could pm them with details of the application. I've got my own planning consultancy and I'm not about to jeopardise that by outing someone on Mumsnet!

Jins - me neither.

Pendeen - not necessarily - some authorities don't push it to Committee until there are five objectors or a Local Councillor involved.

OP - contact your Local Councillor and get them interested.

mistlethrush

Fair point and yes some authorities do have additional criteria however it is quite common for objections to automaticaly trigger referral to commitee.

I practice in the south west so accept this may be different in other areas.

Thanks again.

One more thing. Should I trim my wisteria and Roses as they are very high on that side. The reason is they add security as the place has been vacant so long. I intended to trim them when it was occupied. Would this more clearly show the sunlight issue if removed. If they remain would planners say there is high foliage there anyway so extension wouldn't cause much problem.

The difference to me is an extension is permanent but my roses etc can be trimmed.

Can't advise without knowing more sorry. In general sunlight tends to be a fairly weak issue.

how long is your garden from the back of your house? their house projects 3m at present but will extend to 7m if i understand correctly?

Yes, their house now projects nearly 3m and will project nearly 7m along our western boundary if the extension is built. The existing 3 m is a two-storey and the extension will begin at a height of 3.8 and finish at 2.4m. We have a good length garden but I don't know the length.

I rang the council to see if they had a policy on extension length and they said not set in stone, but 3.5m. I wonder if they will take the entire projection into account. I don't see any extension along the attached side of semi-d's on the road on the os map, never mind one of 7 metres.

Last line should read 'don't see any projection along the attached side'.

Can only offer my own experience. We currently have an application in for a two storey extension which will certainly impose over one of our neighbours. I have been told by the architect that objections on grounds of restricting sunlight are not a concern - although we both have a south facing garden which might contribute to that fact.

We are also in a conservation area and there is no concern at all that we'll get permission for our wall of folding doors - although there is precedence for them in our street. I can't imagine issues of noir would be considered - if anything it would be aesthetics. Same goes for roof skylights, which are probably rarely intended to be opened and are designed more to bring extra light into the room.

If there is no precedence the sheer length of the extension sounds to me the most objectionable aspect, and many of your other points do come across as a bit "desperate". It's a worrying time though, I can imagine, and it sounds as if you are receiving little reassurance.