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Original poster

Offer accepted but they want £10k for F&F??

34 replies

Zeeky · 07/11/2011 10:29

This happens quite often doesn't it? How exactly does it work - can we roll the £10k into the mortgage or do we need to pay this direct in cash? Does it mean it will be excluded from Stamp Duty? It is to cover the 2-oven Aga, oil, carpets, curtains etc, but we don't have a list. Should we get a full inventory of what is included in the £10k before we agree?

They have accepted our first offer subject to this extra £10k for f&f.

OP posts:

PorkChopSter · 07/11/2011 10:43

You need a list first - definitely! Otherwise how do you know what is included?

PrettyCandles · 07/11/2011 12:16

It can be included in the mortgage.
You d

PrettyCandles · 07/11/2011 12:19

(Whoops!)

You don't pay Stamp Duty on it.

You absolutely must have a clearly itemised and agreed list as part if the contract. If your lawyer doesn't insist on this, them they are being u professional and careless.

Do you actually want the fs&fs?

EdlessAllenPoe · 07/11/2011 12:20

are you happy paying this? or is this a negotiation tactic?

the second hand value of an AGA isn't that high...(though moving into a house in which not only the oven, but the curtains, carpets and lightbulbs have all been removed wouldn't be much fun either.)

PrettyCandles · 07/11/2011 12:20

(My typing! )

HappyCamel · 07/11/2011 12:25

Yes you heed a list. It is exempt from stamp duty but there is a small risk of audit and if you are deemed to have overpaid then it's tax evasion with all the associated penalties.

addictediam · 07/11/2011 12:30

You NEED a list with how much they are charging for each item, and if you don't want something then tell your solicitor you dont want that item, your not paying for it.

When we moved here they tried to charge us for the fitted wardrobes, dishwasher and washing machiene amonst other things. We didn't want or need these items and had infact planned to rip out the wardrobes before we moved in. we spoke to oir solicitor, who made sure we didnt pay for them and the previous owners left it all anyway so we then had to get rid.

fergoose · 07/11/2011 12:36

Is it negotiable - it sounds very expensive, or are they fabulous fixtures and fittings? Would you have offered that much for them I wonder?

queensusan · 07/11/2011 12:40

I had no idea people think this is standard and acceptable behaviour !!!!!! It explains a lot about our first experience of buying a house here in the UK - we had moved back after many years overseas. We told the vendors we thought they were taking the p*ss, didn't pay, and they ended up leaving the stuff anyway.

I agree with everyone that has said you need a detailed list with prices against each item. Then decide what you want and only pay for that.

TimothyClaypoleLover · 07/11/2011 12:41

£10K sounds a lot for a second hand aga, curtains and carpets. When we moved house the carpets were included in the sale without having to pay extra for them. And our curtain poles were meant to be left but they took them so although it was a hassle buying curtain poles it wasn't the end of the world and certainly not worth paying £10k for.

MoreBeta · 07/11/2011 12:44

I would say get lost. You need a list of what will stay and what will go. You also need to make sure your solicitor tells them that ripping something like the heating system and damaging the house by taking out things like showers, baths etc would constitute breach of contract.

By the way, the HMRC spotted people getting round stamp duty thresholds with F&F part payments so be careful.

fergoose · 07/11/2011 13:11

Is this just a roundabout way of the seller getting more money for their house from you I wonder? It does sound a lot of money.

Becaroooo · 07/11/2011 13:18

erm....do you want the stuff?

I have never paid for F&F in houses I have bought (even though vendors have tried in the past to charge me £2k for stained 15 year old carpets!!!)

Is the AGA top of the range?? Are the windows an odd size that warrant larger than average curtains?? Is oil that expensive??? Seems a lot of money to me tbh...........

ChristinedePizanne · 07/11/2011 13:21

If it's a way of them accepting a cheaper offer and saving you some stamp duty then it could be worth it; if they benefit but you don't, then don't agree to it.

And yes, you absolutely need a list of what is included. Also, you can haggle on the price - my buyer did.

addictediam · 07/11/2011 13:31

They're charging for carpets (sorry just saw that bit) are they new carpets, do you want to decorate and buy new carpets when you move in? 10k is alot for f&f you really should get on to a solicitor to find a list.

Original poster

Zeeky · 07/11/2011 13:55

I think it is a way of them getting a bit more money out of us. We would have gone up the extra £10k anyway, had they refused our first offer, but I don't think they realise that and so are doing it this way instead. The house is an old farmhouse that they have recently renovated, so carpets etc are all pretty new. The Aga is worth about £4k and they have just filled the oil tank costing £1k, so it depends whether they can justify the other £5k. The slight problems is that they will be our new neighbours, as they are renovating the barn next door, so we don't want to fall out with them over this. We seem to be benefitting more than them, in that it will save us £400 stamp duty, provided we can prove to HMRC that it is not tax avoidance! The carpets were all pretty neutral, but I don't remember the curtains, curtain poles and light fittings as being anything particularly wonderful.

At the moment we have agreed to the price, provided we are happy with the inventory that is included in the £10k.

OP posts:

MoreBeta · 07/11/2011 19:12

"The slight problems is that they will be our new neighbours, as they are renovating the barn next door, so we don't want to fall out with them over this."

Don't even go there. They will lord it over you forever. They will treat your property/land as if it is still theirs and resent the fact that you are living in the house they still really love.

LunaticFringe · 07/11/2011 19:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

pippala · 07/11/2011 20:21

You can buy a new or recondition aga for far less than that! Tell them to take a hike! They will leave them anyway.
The only way the F&F should be priced seperatly would be to bring the price down below the stamp duty threshold.

MadameCastafiore · 07/11/2011 20:25

I thought this was totally illegal now, we are in the middle of selling house and have been told that you can;t do this anymore.

Tell them to get lost anyway and buy what you want - source things correctly and you will spend less on the stuff you really want and most of it will be new. Can probably get what they are trying to flog you for less than 7k. Curtains and carpets really don't cost that much if you know where to go for them.

Littlefish · 07/11/2011 20:37

"The slight problems is that they will be our new neighbours, as they are renovating the barn next door, so we don't want to fall out with them over this."

Don't even go there. They will lord it over you forever. They will treat your property/land as if it is still theirs and resent the fact that you are living in the house they still really love.

I agree with BeenBeta - be very, very, very careful with these people. We have ended up living next door to the people who used to own our house. They continue to own the land around our property. They have made life unbelievably difficult for us and continue to behave as though they own the whole area. Had I realised how difficult they would be, I would have seriously considered whether we should go ahead with the purchase.

Are you absolutely sure that this is the house for you?

nocake · 07/11/2011 21:08

Be very careful. The tax man is clamping down on people who avoid stamp duty but over paying for F&F. I would ask them for an itemised list of evrrything they want you to pay for and decide what you want and what you don't want. Then negotiate the price as they're taking the piss on the Aga price ( they might be £4k new but certainly not second hand) so are probably taking the piss on other stuff.

MoreBeta · 07/11/2011 22:07

Littlefish - sorry to hear of your situation. I have seen this happen elsewhere too.

Problem is that where people sell their main home and move into an adjoining building they are signaling loud and clear that really they dont want to move at all but NEED the money and resent the new owners of their house. They blame them for forcing them to move and living in their home. Its a bit like when homeowners rent out their home and despise their tenants (been their too) and treat them badly.

zeeky? - demanding an extra £10k at the last minute is a sure sign they resent you and have no respect for you.

Littlefish · 07/11/2011 22:11

BeenBeta Unfortunately, we didn't find out the full situation until it was too late (ie. after completion).

Without wishing to give any further information for fear of outing myself, our situation turned out to be horribly complicated by wills which had been challenged/changed and estranged family. We just continue to be polite but firm and refer constantly and consistently to the terms of the deeds.

Labradorlover · 08/11/2011 00:26

I'd be checking the oil tank level and ensuring they don't still have the key........

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