Offer accepted but they want £10k for F&F??

[Zeeky]

This happens quite often doesn't it? How exactly does it work - can we roll the £10k into the mortgage or do we need to pay this direct in cash? Does it mean it will be excluded from Stamp Duty? It is to cover the 2-oven Aga, oil, carpets, curtains etc, but we don't have a list. Should we get a full inventory of what is included in the £10k before we agree?

They have accepted our first offer subject to this extra £10k for f&f.

Be careful with stamp duty.

What most people consider as "fixtures and fittings" the taxman and the lawyer often differentiate. Stamp duty is paid on the value of the land transaction and if something is affixed properly to the structure of the building, then it is counted as a fixture and is part of the land, such as an aga.

Alternatively, if its mainly the aga you are after - how is it fixed? If it has been concreted in, like most agas, then even if it was not explicitly named in the contract it should be included as part of the fixtures. If their removal of this aga would damage the building then they are not legally entitled to unless they make provision for it in the contract. Your lawyer should know more about this though (one would hope!)

"Problem is that where people sell their main home and move into an adjoining building they are signaling loud and clear that really they dont want to move at all but NEED the money and resent the new owners of their house. They blame them for forcing them to move and living in their home. Its a bit like when homeowners rent out their home and despise their tenants (been their too) and treat them badly."

It does kind of depend whether this is the reality. Maybe they have always fancied renovating the barn instead and think it will be a house that they much prefer to the original one?

FWIW we moved next door in my childhood - to have 4 bedrooms instead of 3. I don't think anyone in our family felt they had a claim on the old house....we preferred the new one - that's why we moved. We went in it occasionally when invited but certainly didn't hassle the new owners. Equally they left us alone apart from normal neighbourliness too....I can imagine some people might be round every five minutes asking how the central heating works or complaining that the x doesn't work.

I understand why you're wary if you've had a bad experience of this sort of situation but just wanted to say it doesn't have to work out badly.

When buying a house you would normally consider 'fixed' items to be included in the purchase price, so this includes curtain poles but not curtains, fitted carpets but not rugs, definitely the Aga (unless specified in the sales details or verbally when viewing). You should be paying for these items as part of your purchase price, and stamp duty paid on that figure. If there are any extras you are buying, so oil in the tank, washing machine, fridge, unfitted bookcases, etc, these can be specified as extras and the buyers would specify a price which you would either agree to or not.
Your sellers are taking the piss, and your estate agent should be telling them so!

Let your solicitor know that these items (except the oil) were not specified as being removed from the property before sale, and so your offer was based on their inclusion.

Just to clarify a little, they have accepted our first offer but said they would also like the £10k to cover F&F. We can't quite understand why they are doing it this way, other than that they think we would not have budged on price otherwise. They were really nice when we met them. Basically they bought the property and renovated it fully and now want another project, but love the village so much they didn't really want to move far. They recently bought the barn next door so have decided that will be their next project. They are sensibly putting in a totally new access to the barn so that they don't have access in any way through our property.

We have requested a full listing of what the £10k would cover. I agree that it should not really cover the aga, as that is effectively the hot water and central heating system! I'm guessing that the solicitor will not be happy with the breakdown of F&F as HMRC have clamped down so heavily on this, so we will need to renegotiate a little - probably increase the price we are paying for the property by £5k and scrap the £10k for F&F.

Is it an AGA that does heating, or just the cooking one? I would pay for the oil as that is expensive and as you wouldn't expect a vendor to pay for gas/elec for you, why should they for the oil? I have a friend whose purchaser wouldn't pay for the cost of the oil in the half full tank, so it got drained before they moved out.

What sort of aga is it? If it is an oil or gas one - you can't give them away basically as they are so expensive to run. I got rid of a gas aga last month for £450 after a long while of trying to sell it, and I had to get it taken apart first- which can cost upwards of £250. You can refuse to buy the aga in which case they would have to remove it and make good the mess left behind.Maybe that could be a starting point for negotiating. They should've filled in a questionnaire before the sale stating what was included.

they may well have just filled the oil tank but will they be filling it up again the day before completion? Otherwise you shouldn't be paying £1k for it!

I don't believe the Aga should be f&f-its part of the house. I bet it was listed in the agents particulars as constituting part of a lovely 'farmhouse 'kitchen

Also, if they have just spent that money to do up the place to sell, then surely that would be reflected in the cost of the house, no? Charging for carpets is just mind boggling... Snice is right though, anything included in the particulars of the house, or any adverts for it, need to be included in the purchase price rather than F&F...

take a careful look and the list of F&F and see if it is worth £10k to you. If not, politely decline and ask your solicitor to remind theirs that they are responsible for making good any damage caused by removing things (e.g. picture rails). In which case it will probably not be worth their while removing them. Second-hand carpets and picture-rails are practically worthless. A second-hand stove is not worth much and will cost as much to remove and refit as if it was new. If the Aga was included in the Sale Particulars then you are entitled to say that your offer was made on the understanding that it was included as part of the house, and you are surprised and disappointed that they appear to be trying to change the conditions after the offer was made.

During the preparation of the sale contract, there is a standard questionaire with tick boxes for things like "are you leaving the fires? Are you leaving the carpets? Are you leaving the curtain rails and poles? An answer "no" to any of these will stall progress while it is sorted out.

I reckon they're just trying it on and you are under no obligation to accept.

Remember they are trying to sell the house, they are not giving it to you as a favour.