Is anyone else trying to sell a house and feels like poking themselves in the eye with a sharp stick?

[Pinkjenny]

House has been on the market since July. We have changed estate agents, which obviously made no difference as it's not a new instruction. Am sick of it all, sick of the pointless viewers, sick of the useless feedback, sick of always being pipped at the post, sick of the market, sick of my house.

Yes me! That's all I can bring myself to say on the subject just now

Greentown:

1. Fact - so? your point is? we are just emerging from recession. - I beg to differ. Surely you don't believe the spin. Look around you.

1. Fact - in what way are your specific friends relevant to the price of houses? - My friends redundancies are anecdotal but the point is that things clearly are not rosy in the job market. Not even in the early 80s recession did I see so many people losing their jobs.

1. Fact - educated + at top of game!? again, what has this to do with anything? - Because the people I'm talking about are people who buy houses. They're not renters or council house tenants.

4 & 5 Facts - nobody is disputing house sale VOLUMES are lower at inflation is high -- are they going to carry on down or are they on the way back up? You don't know but you clearly want them to go down hence the persistent doommongering - Sorry but it's just economics at work. Supply and demand. What happens to prices when demand falls? Inflation, ceteris paribus means less disposable income = less money available to fund house purchases.

6 Fact - this is just opinion --- MOST are on fixed or SVR - you do not know this!!! - I do. It is a matter of public record. The banks and building societies publish the statistics on this. IIRC only about 25% of mortgages are trackers. How many of those do you reckon are trackers close to BofE rate? Not many, especially as many mortgages have a rate floor.

7 Fact another great Torygraph story - not a fact but an OPINION - I'll give you that one but what I meant is that I didn't make it up but that a leading economist has researched the facts and stated this.

So people buying at the market price in a given area, right price and right time, condition/location are FOOLS are they? - Well that depends on the exact circumstances.

Go and grow up luv! stop swallowing housepricecrash.com verbatim - I am grown up and have seen and worked through previous recessions. This one is worse than any I've experienced. I also read Economics at University and I have a fair understanding of just what a mess the economy is in. I cannot see one indicator that is positive for the housing market. The Government has used every trick in the book to keep the housing market from collapsing but it's not working any more.

end of!

Greentown - I haven't read all your posts - but enough of them. The market in 2011 is different from 2009; it is much worse and it is going to get much worse.
At the moment prices in the SE are being held up slightly by cash buyers. That will run out soon.

House prices FELL last month (again) and this should be the "spring bounce".
Reality is that there will be more unemployment, high inflation, interest rises any month soon and general doom and gloom. Have you not seen the predictions that Britain will be looking for a bail out soon?
There is NO money left. House vendors are mostly living in la la land and seem unable to accept that their house has lost them money. They seem to accept when this happens with shares and other commodities but people find it hard when it comes to houses.
If you need to sell I think you should do so now as things are about to get a hell of a lot worse.

By admitting the following you will all think I am sad and pathetic. However, I have been tracking the market in a few neighbhoords in London that we would like to move to when the time comes. (Which could not be for a while, but could equally be by November).

From that particular area, I have drawn a few conclusions:

1. The market is stagnant in a particular (affordable) price range
2. multi bedroom flats sell quicker. I gather they are bought as investment opportunities (there are two universities, and two hospitals nearby)
3. Houses over 900.000 sell like hot cakes.

This means, in my view, that the wealthy are not so affected by the recession, they sell and buy properties in the million plus price range with ease. Investors have good opportunities. Property sales in the lower to middle price range have stalled because "people like us" are trapped in the recession, cant sell, cant buy, and can for sure not afford anything bigger and better.

So, the property market pretty accurately reflect the overall picture.

DoesBuggerAll + tooworried

Let's dispense with the A level economics argument ie if demand is low and supply high then the prices should fall - but the price isn't falling, is it? That's what you're on here complaining about - so the superficial economic truisms (popular on undergraduate courses) let you down there don't they - so your formula doesn't apply - QED

And by the way, all people (esp academics) quoted in newspapers have an axe to grind or a book to sell, esp in the Torygraph so it remains opinion not fact - no matter how learned your leading economist - surely everyone knows that.

There are more thinktanks and economic gobshites peddling nonsense and predictions on the economy than there are fish in the sea - the facts do not support your view.
If they did, you'd be able to pick up that house you want for a song - no?

Govt tricks aren't working anymore you say - and yet ... the market isn't doing what you as an economist say it should do!!! Fancy that! Could it be that you just don't understand the world of REAL economics

Check your economic indicators on recession - what are they and what do they indicate?

You can't just pick and choose!!!

The country is emerging from recession - FACT.

tooworried - the seasonal bounce you refer to was not a fall it was a seasonal adjustment and prices actually ROSE in April - read the complete story not just the Daily Mail headlines

www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/comment/8492571/House-prices-are-not-going-to-plunge.html

[www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/comment/8492571/House-prices-are-not-going-to-plunge.html]

my observations would tie in with quint... obviously it varies hugely from one area to another but definitely your points are true where we are looking and selling. nothing moving at all in the 500-900 bracket (which is ours)

I can second the floorplan suggestion, its all very well knowing how many rooms a house has got but if i dont know where they are in relation to each other then im not getting a pretty important piece of information that i need.

I personally prefer open plan type houses but if i look at a house on rightmove that ticks all the other boxes but doesnt show me a floorplan then i have no idea if im going to be able to knock walls through to achieve an open plan type house, so then ive got to arrange a viewing that could end up with me going into somebodys home taking one look at the layout and thinking to myself well i cant knock that wall through and leaving straight away.

Floorplans can save everbody involved a lot of time and hassle.

Not that it's the point of the thread, but I'm with greentown here and think she speaks a lot of sense.

We're trying to sell and I get the impression, that as with a lot of other sellers, we'd like to sell but there is absolutely no reason why we have to sell and actually the extended period of incredibly low interest rates has just meant that we've paid off a huge chunk of our mortgage.

If someone thinks my house is overvalued and worth only 70% of the asking price, I just won't sell it to them. We'll just stay put and deal without having an extra bedroom and reception room.

I get the impression that an awful lot of sellers are in the same position as us, hence why people are maybe noticing houses sitting on the market. However, my experience (of tracking the houses for sale in the area where we are interested in moving to) is that it the demand still outstrips supply, mainly because of the new school in a city with a massive shortfall of school places.

Of the people I know well enough to discuss these matters candidly, only 2 are in negative equity as they bought as the height of the market, with little deposit. Even they are not worried about it, as they have been able to build up sufficient savings reserves (as a result of their much lower mortgage repayments due to lower interest rates) during the past few years to ensure that they can safely meet their mortgage repayments for sometime to come.

And I only know of a handful of people who have been made redundant - and they've ALL found work again very quickly (usually with the added benefit of a settlement which has been used to pay a chunk of their mortgages).

I know interest rates can only go up (as will anyone with half a brain) hence why people have been paying off as much capital as possible now.

I agree to a large degree with DBA. We are seeing exactly the same thing. Our global company seems to be shedding people and cutting back every three years now, and seems to be the same for the whole sector. All our degree+ qualified friends can no longer be secure in their career, no matter how good their track record, and the number of jobs available in the sector is getting smaller every year. You don't usually hear about it in the press, because they cut in dribs & drabs, below the number that has to be officially notified so goes under the radar, but it doesn't mean it's not happening.
I do not pretend to be an economist, but I do recognise that the housing market is in a very precarious position, and prices are massively overinflated. We & other families we know are refusing to buy in this market, although we could. (High deposits, high incomes, very low LTV mortgage needed and agreed in principle).
The market is attrocious for both buyers & sellers. We've lost faith in the market, and will stay in our mortgage free semi, unless the situation changes. We haven't bothered making low offers on things we've seen, because we know it would not be accepted by the vendors, and we fully appreciate that if expectations are at a certain level it will take time to move on from that. All the houses we've seen have either been withdrawn from sale or are still on the market with agents who's approach is 'we are not reducing the asking price; We know it's high, but we are willing to punt it at that level and see if we find the right buyer'. Maybe 5% of the houses we've seen have found a buyer within a year. I have been looking since Jan 2010, and for what I was looking at last year, I would this year need a budget of 20-40% higher. So, no thanks! I'm saving my loot and taking the family to the Carribbean for Christmas.

FWIW, if you are trying to sell now, how about not reducing asking price, but encouraging EA to advertise to a wider audience - maybe listed buyers who are looking in a slightly lower price-range - and encouraging offers?? Maybe getting more people through the door and considering your house as a potential might be interesting to see if it gets you where you want to be?
I think buyers & sellers have much more in common than you might think; we both have something of interest to the other, so time to negotiate, and get the deal done.

I just want to add, I have no interest whatsoever in seeing the market crash. I just want asking prices to find a more realistic level, which is not the same as wanting someone who bought their house for £650k in '07 to sell it to me for £580k; just annoys me if they're now asking £850k, with no added living space/new kitchen/bathroom etc etc..........................

mylovelymonster - I disagree fundamentally with your argument.

I'm intrigued by why both you and DBA both seem to think that the redundancies of your degree + qualified friends, all at the peak of their games, (I quote) are somehow uniquely and especially significant of economic woe.

Interesting also, in that you both use almost exactly the same terms/language... ummmh!!!

But also (if this is true) baffled as to why you think that their particular positions are sooo important.

Also puzzled as to how anyone with a family, and who says they have the means to do otherwise, would chuck money away on rent, when they could be investing for their family's future security.

Where I'm looking, a 3 bed terrace (sml family home) will cost you £1200 min per cal month. That's £15,000 a year you're giving away for the sake of principle!!! And that's not counting the lack of interest you're earning on your big deposit in the bank - because interest rates (and mortgage rates) are so staggeringly low.

That's another reason why your reasoned argument doesn't stack up.

Where did I say I was renting? I was not making an argument - merely sharing my anecdotal experiences. And job losses are highly relevant, wherever they fall, especially in a highly educated and skilled workforce. Is indicative of how many more groups of people, and affluent ones at that, are facing the real issue of loss of job security and in some cases, loss of their career altogether, which makes committing to a long term financial expenditure more difficult, and the wider the group being affected the lower the proportion of prospective homeowners & movers there are to support ever increasing house prices.
I have no idea which sectors DBA is talking about or which area of the country.

I really don't care to argue with you. You have your experience which I'm sure is all very relevant to you, but arguing the toss is not going to alter the course of events, is it?

you're right, I don't know why we bother talking about anything, doesn't make any odds anyway....

nobody said job losses were irrelevant - just that both you and DBA picked out a very particular group to highlight their employment issues. Non-grads buy houses too and are an essential part of the market/chains. It's when unemployment affects 'the masses' that the economy suffers drastically - not when it is cherry picking particular groups - be they professionals or not.

I disagree with both you and DBA because you are both highlighting (in very similar terms) a uniquely personal situation and expanding from that to claim it illustrates the norm - I don't believe it does at all.

I assumed you were renting as you seemed to want to buy but didn't mention any issues with selling - my mistake - I guess, in line with your own policies, you'll be offering potential buyers a hefty discount on your property.

That's the spirit!

It's always interesting spotting the posters with a vested interest in selling who are panicking

Our own experience is personal, of course. I do feel personally that when well educated professional graduates who are high earners, historically in long-term career-driven employment, historically able to rely on finding employment elsewhere should either career progression or a modicom of re-organisation and healthy business-driven down-sizing prevail, are beginning to face a much smaller sector, more regular job-cuts, and little to no alternative positions within the same sector, and that when a company(ies) starts to carry out regular down-sizing processes in a rational attempt to protect the economic future of that company/sector - then I do feel that is not an isolated indicator of prevailing economics.
Of course, this group is not the only one that buys houses!! And of course, if what I am saying is believable at all, I don't presume to infer that it will alone have a big effect in the housing market. It is simply that this group would historically be comfortable taking out large mortgages and buying large four-bed detatched houses with a view to living in them long-term and being able to cover costs, but now are reconsidering extremely carefully and being much more cautious and conservative, especially with asking prices for this type of house being what they currently are.

What's the talk of hefty discounts?? Do houses command an RRP? i will sell for what I consider fair and what a serious buyer is willing to offer when the time comes (and, I feel I need to clarify, I mean serious as in able to proceed, not someone who hasn't the brains to negotiate and willing to hand over whatever I ask on a silver platter).
You do assume a great deal. I don't assume that anything I say will affect anyone else's view. You simply cannot say that my anecdote is wrong. I have not inferred that a massive effect will ensue, but I don't believe my experience is either unique or irrelevant.

We have just sold a bungalow for close to asking price. We sold it within a month of putting it on the market. Key to making this sale were (in my opinion):

• the bungalow was empty and therefore the chain ended with us.
• the bungalow had been totally renovated (rewired, replumbed, redecorated, new kitchen and bathroom). Our mark is better than new.
• our asking price made the bungalow look like good value in the price bracket on rightmove.
• the estate agents details were very good quality and I dont approve them until they are.
• I work with the estate agent, they arent the enemy. I have worked with the same company a few times and would happily use them again.

Buying, renovating and selling houses is a small business for us. Viewers arent a PITA they are potential customers. I love them all, just beacause Mrs A doesnt like the house for herself, if it is good quality she might mention it to Mrs B and so on.

It is possible to sell in this market. I would have to say that where we are there is little supply. It was a hard winter so I would be expecting to see a few more bungalows come on but they arent there. I suspect that families are hanging onto them in the hope that the market will pick up.

"It was a hard winter so I would be expecting to see a few more bungalows come on but they arent there."

I shouldn't really lol but this made me.

The vast majority of the properties we've viewed since February have had no chain. I imagine this is mainly (judging by the decoration) that the owners were deceased.

tyler - sorry, it's business! I do worry that we will get a reputation, start walking up someone's drive and there will be a frightened voice behind the door saying 'Im not dead yet!'

There are a couple of bungalow streets in the neighbourhood with what are looking like vacant properties but no 'for sale' boards.

mylovelymonster - I'll be blunt. What really irks about your comments and those of dba is your humongous, arrogant and absolutely unmitigated sense of entitlement!

"Why good sir, if good solid, well-fed, nurtured, well-spoken and well-bred middle class chuffs with fine taste like us can't afford to buy houses then the world and its dog must be going to hell on a bicycle" - whatever!!!

I never said your anecdote was wrong - I said I fundamentally disagree with your argument - ie that the housing market and the economy are all but going to the dogs.

It isn't true and the evidence is there in the economic data to show it.

It's also good to know that you will sell for what's a 'fair price' but nobody else is doing that - are they?

You don't assume anything other than your self-importance.

tooworried - wish you had a house too, dontcha?

I never said anything was going to the dogs, I did say that I find it hard to see how the current housing market could be sustained, and I'm focussing more on asking prices than actual sold values. I am looking at upsizing. Where is my brash sense of self importance and entitlement? You have zero idea of either my background, financial position, budget, area, type of house I'm looking for etc so how can you possibly say I am being in the slightest bit unreasonable?
Why do you wish to be personally insulting?

Don't worry mylovelymonster, greentown is in denial. She's trying to talk the market up. Frankly she sounds absolutely desperate. The fact that she has resorted to personal insults says it all really. I'm not at all bothered if people try to dismiss my anecdotal evidence as irrelevant, I'm just 'saying it as I see it'.

If people think that everything is rosy in the UK today then they are really not paying attention. In the UK in last few years we've had the first bank runs in 140 years, the Government (taxpayer) has spent hundreds of billions bailing out just about all the major UK banks which were insolvent. Even Alistair Darling admitted that they were hours away from RBS having to pull down the shutters and switch off the cashpoints. Even the banks like Barclays who came through relatively unscathed would also have gone under if it wasn't for the indirect support they received from the Government guarantees. In addition the Government has pursued a policy of virtually zero interest rates. Never in the 300 year history of the Bank of England has this been necessary. The country has an enormous deficit which despite the Government rhetoric on cuts is not being addressed with anything like the vigour necessary. Household debt levels are at record highs. The only reason that the banks are not repossessing record numbers of houses is because they are being lent on by the Government. All the stops have been pulled out in order to support the housing market but all that's happened is that the can has been kicked further down the road and the pain will be greater later on. Savers are being hung out to dry with the theft of their income from the low interest rates. Inflation, whilst not at historical highs is relentlessly higher than the 2% target and unlike in earlier times is not being mitigated by wage inflation. Oh, and the currency has been trashed which further adds to the pain since we import so much. Unemployment is steadily rising and I fear will continue to rise if the promised cuts materialize.

Overall we really are in uncharted waters. We are not in an ordinary recession such as experienced in recent memory. Not even our Grandparents would have experienced anything like it. The last couple of years have been a 'phoney' recession as the Government has thrown everything including the kitchen sink at it hoping it will go away. It hasn't, and won't until the debt bubble has burst and it all unwinds. The best the Government can do is slow things so that we get a long, protracted decline before a future recovery. Some might argue it would be better to take the pain quickly and clear the decks with a default on our debt but it doesn't look like that's going to happen.

Personally with regards to the housing market I'm not in any hurry. Sure we could do with an extra room and a bigger garden but since we're mortgage free with a year's salary in savings we can bide our time.

Hi DBA Apparently we're related
We're in a similar position to you, and have a number of friends the same too. We all share a gut feeling that with things as they are and have been, as you outlined, it would be crazy to spend the kind of money we're looking at spending right now.