Number of GCSEs and A levels per pupil

[HeyItsNotRainingToday]

Is it just me or is it incredibly hard to find this information for private secondary schools? All the league tables seem to be by exam, not by student. Surely this encourages many schools to reduce the number of exams each child takes, which is I'm sure the opposite of what we want for our kids! If anyone knows of a league table of, say, 'UCAS points per pupil' or similar please let me know as this is really annoying me. Thanks.

In case anyone is interested, this is the GCSE data I'm referring to for state schools (it may cover independents too but will be effectively useless due to IGCSEs not being included):
https://www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/schools-by-type?step=default&table=schools&region=all-england&for=secondary&basedon=Exam%20entries%20GCSEs&show=All%20pupils

I just think it's a useful additional data item to compare with %A*-B etc.

Sorry @HeyItsNotRainingToday but I still don’t really follow why this is important.

Most schools in England AFAIK offer similar numbers of GCSEs. Those numbers are lower than they were relatively few years ago (so my 24yo DD was in the first cohort of new GCSEs) bc of the change to linear assessment and the consequent increased volume of learning and number of exams.

Maybe we specialise to early here. But I am honestly not aware of many schools enabling 12+ GCSEs or 4+ A levels. I really don’t see this as a marker of a school tbh.

I don’t think that data is particularly useful for state schools either- too many variables. I work in a state school. Kids joining mid way through year 11- may only sit a couple of exams. Lots of native language papers being sat etc etc.
There won’t be a table for Independent schools like that. The only way you’re going to get the info is compiling it yourself. And I still don’t think it’s useful!

@HeyItsNotRainingToday I think you are possibly focussing too much on league tables and exam stats. The benefits of independent school stretch far beyond exam results. Decent schools are trying to produce rounded individuals, and that stretches far beyond exam results. Yes, exam results are important, but are only part of the picture. If you speak to individual schools, they should be able to give you more information. The problem with stats and league tables is that they don’t paint the whole picture. For example, there is a difference between a school where pupils just do 3 A-levels, and a different school where pupils do 3 A-levels, but where pupils all then do an EPQ/DofE/cadets/music diplomas etc and have all at least started a 4th A-level. League tables wouldn’t reflect that difference. It’s the same with GCSEs. There is a difference between a school where pupils do 9 GCSEs and little else, and a school which does 9 GCSEs plus extra internal courses on current affairs/creative writing etc, multiple sports lessons a week, DofE, cadets etc.

Anecdotally the two state grammar schools near me do 9 and 8.6 respectively according to that data, whereas our independent school (also on there) does 10.

Why are you sending your child to this private school if you are so convinced they won't be getting as broad an education as they might at a state school? It is a lot of money to throw at education if you are starting a thread about concerns and haven't looked at the school's own data on their website.

The reason it's useful is it acts as a counterpoint to any incentive the current league tables give to schools to discourage enthusiastic children from taking an extra subject because it might reduce their %A*-A. I agree that no parent should choose schools based on league table rankings or stats alone (or even primarily) - but is the behaviour of schools influenced by them? I would be astounded if not.

I disagree with your OP, that we wouldn't want DC to reduce the number of exams taken if they were struggling. If a teen is capable of getting eight As and A*s or grade 8-9 or whatever system is currently in use, but those grades might drop to 6s and 7s or Bs and Cs or lower if they were attempting to revise to ten or eleven exams, then I think the first option is preferable. They can manage their workload, reduce stress and feel proud of great grades.

DC went to a very academic secondary but they only did 8 or 9 GCSEs and 3 A levels - maximum 4 only if they took Further Maths too. It meant they could enjoy their sixth form. The girls' school next to theirs did 11 GCSEs as standard and 4 or 5 A levels. Those girls were clever but they were also neurotic with eating disorders. I think the balanced workload was fine and didn't disbar them from any unis as Oxford and Cambridge, for example, tend not to prefer students with lots of extra exams, as this would jeopardise state school applicants whose schools only offer the minimum.

My children's school do 9 GCSEs, maths, English lit, English Lang, science (biology, chemistry and physics) but it is combined science so they get 2 grades for that either the same grade 8,8 or one grade lower 8,7. Then they choose 4 option subjects. Triple science falls under the options category due to the amount of content. That would get you 3 individual grades for the sciences would see a child achieve 10 GCSEs. The vast majority do 9 GCSEs as triple is only offered to those high achieving in science.

Again for A level some state schools have funding to take 4 A levels for choice in year 12 and then they are forced to drop one for year 13. My children attended a different sixth form where everyone does 3 A levels unless a 4th A level was Further Maths. This put them into a less than 6% category when applying to uni. Even having 4 A levels out of 8 offers (both children) only 1 listed a 4 A level grade profile for entry. Medicine etc only want 3. The reason for the Further Maths A level for my children was applying to study maths heavy courses at top universities.

Only 1 child was sitting 5 A levels who went on to MIT in the US.

You keep focusing on the number of GCSEs taken, this is about timetabling and staff availability too. My children had 5 lessons of 1 hour per day, that had to include a compulsory PE lesson.

I am sure it happens at other schools but locally we know of a private school that will just put a child in as a private candidate for one specific GCSE if the are getting a low grade in a subject but it rarely happens as intervention takes place to ensure children get higher grades. The child still achieves their GCSEs but without it affecting the school's league tables.

But most independent schools do give a free choice within the total number taken. They can’t have everyone deciding they’d also like to take a few extra for fun as they won’t have the teachers, timetabling capacity etc.
I’m always in awe of how they can timetable 180 kid’s various options etc as it is.
For A level they’re not going to encourage someone to take something they’re not going to pass- the predicted grade would have to go on the UCAS application and wouldn’t look great. If my son fancied doing Art A level for example he wouldn’t be able to, but he could choose one of the many ‘electives’ on offer instead, one of which is probably Art. In the same way, his friend who is doing Maths, Physics and Chemistry could choose a ‘Playwriting’ elective in sixth form which would be a nice balance to his A levels.

Schools across the independent sector are very different from one another. You need to look at individual schools and ask your own questions. League tables aren’t hugely helpful unless your sole focus is on exam results. Some schools are reducing the number of exams being sat (eg some are going from 11 to 10 GCSEs), but they are doing this for reasons beyond league tables. They are often replacing the 11th for extra education (non examined) in debating/creative writing/reading time etc. I know of numerous independent schools all doing 10 GCSEs for example, but they are hugely different schools and would suit different children.

I think you’re very cynical.

9 GCSEs and 3 A-levels is an amount that could allow private school kids (who are more likely to have had tuition to a high level) in other interests like sport and music where playing at county or national development teams are arguably better for the individual.

DS did 10 at state school which I thought was a good number. When 5 are already taken up with Eng lit/lang, maths, and double award science it doesn't give you many options if you can only do eight, but 12 is just unnecessary IMO.

How old is your DC? In all probability we will have a change of government and therefore educational priorities by the time your child gets to pick their GCSEs.

It sounds as though you at least have a choice of where they can go to school. Must of us don't, we send them to whichever local school is available.

I strongly recommend that you stop overthinking this and concentrate on which school is a good fit for your child within a reasonable distance.

Exactly this.

As you say, education is already changing. For example, it’s been announced that the EBacc is being dropped. I would be asking a school what their plans for modern languages are. Will they stop making all pupils sit a modern language for example? If so, there’s a chance that a language option becomes less popular and may impact on the viability of certain languages even being an option if too few pupils choose it.

Independent schools vary massively in terms of how they approach things as they are free to do as they please. You have to do tours and ask the question. There are some which top the league tables but are famous for culling students and doing fewer exams. The most traditional and established schools with a very well known name like Westminster/Eton/St Paul‘s definitely don’t do this - they keep the academic offering broad and their focus is also on keeping their long term teaching staff in a job that gives them satisfaction. Which often means having A level classes too. You will only have enough pupils at A level if kids are taking enough and a variety of subjects at GCSE. The most established schools value their own staff, they have to as that is the only way to keep the school name over centuries. Much like with other highly skilled jobs and brands.

9 was standard in ours. 3 Alevels standard in 6th form college (state) which is second in the country.

was specifically told by top university that they look at the best 5 GCSEs and the best 3 A Levels and that they see the option to take any more as a privilege.