How competitive is 11+? SE London

[SE3mum]

Hello

As my username suggests I live in SE London. Currently I have a child in yr5 at a state primary school. He is bright, not top of the class but above average.

It is our intention to send DS to private school from yr7. We have been on tours and open days and have narrowed it down to two- Colfe's and St Dunstans.

However, I met a friend today whose child goes to the local prep school and she basically told me that it isn't as simple as handing over your money - that entrance is really competitive and we should have been tutoring already. Their school basically spends all of yr5 coaching them for exams.

Is this true? I know loads of children are tutored at our local primary but I thought that was mainly for the grammar schools in Bexley and Kent. I must admit a lot of parents at school are cagey about their plans for secondary and so I may have got this completely wrong.

I knew he had to sit entrance exams and thought we would get the Atom learn app over the summer to practice - is this completely naive?

We looked at Dulwich and Alleyns but thought they would be too competitive (and too far away) but I have been told we should go for more.

Our state options are pretty dire.

Is it really as bad as my friend makes out? Surely VAT will make it less competitive?

Colfe's is competitive because of the number of kids who want places, I'm not sure about St Dustans, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't sit for them, I know quite a few kids who have gotten into various schools at 11+ without tutoring . We sat our DC for three, just so they had options (our local state schools at the time were awful), but this might have been overkill. Have you had a look at Babington House Senior Overview - Babington House School - Babington House School? It might be another option, it's a lovely school.

Depends on the school. I know a few dc who didn't pass the Sutton/Kingston grammars or score that high on Wandsworth test but got private places including Dulwich & Alleyns.

I don't think St Dunstans is that selective but that may have changed.

Surely VAT will make it less competitive?

Not really, many people were priced out before VAT so the ones who can afford the current prices can generally take the VAT hit.

Why do you say your local state options are dire by the way? SE3 has some decent secondaries.

looking at catchments online we would have St Matthew's or John Roan (Deptford ones too I think) - not Leigh Academy or Thomas Tallis.

We have looked at St Matthew's, Leigh Academy and Thomas Tallis.

No one at school has a good thing to say about our (realistic) state options, local reputation isn't great.

@xmasdealhunter thanks, I have heard of Babington House but it isn't that easy for us to get to - bus to Lee then train I assume?

Colfe's and St Dunstans would be one bus.

The nearest station to the school is Elmstead Woods, so it'll depend whereabouts you are on the bus route as to whether it's 1 or 2 buses. There also might be a direct train depending on where you're coming from x

I would say I’ve heard better things about Deptford Green over the years than St Dunstans!

St Dunstans doesn’t require you to be that bright (understatement….)

That said, they’ve had several tie-ups with local preps recently, meaning those kids get in at 11 without sitting the test. I gather that means that the number of genuinely available places has gone down, which might make things trickier.

St Dunstans is increasingly competitive and Colfe’s has always been desirable, so prep will be needed especially if at state as the tests will cover more than the Y5 curriculum.

We have gone through the process this year and started at start of year 5. We just did Atoms every day (10-15 mins) and then some longer more targeted practice on tricky areas on weekends but it was never hours and hours each week. Little and often up until summer and then Summer we focused on creative / persuasive writing. Start of y6 started exam techniques etc as exams were November time.

Tbh it’s not about getting the top scores for those schools - it’s more about ensuring confident in things such as verbal and non verbal reasoning and having exam technique.

@SE3mum another vote for you to check out Babington house. My friend said about a dozen or so children there from se3 - bus to Lewisham station and quick direct train to Elmstead woods or I see them at blackheath station: 3 min train to Lewisham and then change to the direct Elmstead woods one

as per pp: it’s exam technique. Colfes has past papers on their website, have a look. A number of children won’t have tutors but they will have parents who have carefully reviewed the exam structure and helped practise under timed conditions. Colfes now quite competitive entry, st Dunstan’s increasingly so - but if it came down to it I would choose Babington over St Dunstan’s (depending on your child of course)

Thanks everyone - after hearing so much about Babington House I have arranged a tour and DS is going to a taster session in a couple of weeks. I am impressed with them so far - very helpful and pleasant to deal with.

I still need to work out what the journey would be like, especially in the mornings. It seems hard to imagine him going on his own but it is still a while away.

None of the 3 schools you've mentioned are that competitive.

Colfes often admit kids that haven't got in to the Bexley Grammars - and in fact I don't know anyone who's been rejected in the admissions process.

There's no need to prep from year 5 - but definitely spend some time in year 6 just getting them used to what will be asked of them. Time management is really important, and the ability to deal with a formal exam setting.

My DD is year 7 at colfes. When she sat the 11plus there were 560 applicants for 60 external spaces. Obviously the School would have made many more than 60 offers (I don't know how many) but that should give you an idea of the numbers. I believe that for September 2025 entry there were around 500 applicants sitting the test (so a slight reduction now that VAT has been imposed) and the school is now full for year 7 entry.

Have you thought about asking Colfes if there will be a Year 6 place from September? I knew a pupil that joined in Yr. 6 along with their elder sibling. Obviously there would be no guarantee of a Yr. 7 place in 2026, but they are an ethical, child-centred school that would not take a child in upper primary who was unlikely to be suited to the senior school.

St Dunstan’s is now competitive and has been for a few years. I know some children who didn’t get offers - including two who got offers from other school. It’s not a hot house but if your child isn’t meeting the grade, they also do suggest you leave (which isn’t kind but it does undermine the theory that it will take anyone).

I would suggest you see if there are any occasional places for year 6 as they won’t let him in unless they think they can keep him for senior school. If he’s at all keen on rugby, avoid it (and Alleyns) as they don’t play it. The upside of the school is it does seem to be a happy place. It does tend to suit extroverts more though.

Also check for occasional places for year 6 for Colfes - you will save yourself and your son a lot of stress with the 11+…

Colfes exam results have hugely improved and I can’t work out if they’re gaming the system. Will be interesting to review after a few solid post Covid exam years. They’re also a rugby school and take sports more seriously than St Dunstan’s.

Dulwich is highly competitive and the downside is that standards are even higher once you’re in - not because of pushy teachers but because the cohort is exceptional. It’s intake comes from as far as Fulham, Kensington to parts of Kent. If you’re in Blackheath you may find your child traipsing over to mansions in Clapham for play dates. It does have a very generous bursary scheme too so your son is likely to have a diverse range of friends. Alleyns is far more socially exclusive and white… Nearly impossible unless you are extremely bright or a celeb… or have a very active prep school phoning and advocating for you if you don’t get in. Its expansion into north London may also divert attention away from the Dulwich site.

In your shoes and location, I would definitely try Eltham College which is now co-Ed. It’s always given Dulwich a run for its money and is not a long journey from your area.

Dulwich is highly competitive and the downside is that standards are even higher once you’re in - not because of pushy teachers but because the cohort is exceptional.

Interesting, I know a few dc who didn't get selective state places but got Dulwich.

At least one on a bursary

@treetopsgreen That’s interesting! I take it these were grammar places? You only need to be more or less in the top third to get into grammars - but that’s only if you’re localish. It’s much harder to get in if you live outside the local zone. For example you need to be in the top 2% of applicants if you live where we live.

Dulwich says its pupils are top 15% in the country. It’s not in the same league as St Paul’s or Westminster or the highly selective grammars like St Olave’s. But what it does have are boys who excel in other areas such as music, sports and entrepreneurship etc.

Sutton & kingston grammars & Graveney

Apparently the test for the grammars was much harder (in the dcs opinion). All from state primaries as well.

The academic standards for bursaries are not higher than for full fee payers. There are academic scholarships but the bursaries - which are based on household income - are far more generous. In fact, I would go as far as to say there may be a tiny bit of contextual offering going on. Eg: if there is a child who has been to a prep vs a child who has been to the comp and lives on a local estate and they both have the same grades, Dulwich would probably favour taking the local school boy. The school has stated that it wants to be a needs-blind school - though I think VAT may have undermined that ambition a bit.

Ok. I assumed you would have to be a higher scorer to qualify for the bursary.

I know a few other dc that didn't pas the grammars but got into other privates but I had heard Dulwich was harder to get into so was surprised.

Bursaries are means- tested @treetopsgreen but scholarships are based on ability. I believe you need household income to be below about 100-110k to be considered for a bursary. Sounds like a lot! But that’s virtually cut in half by tax and totally wiped out if you have 2 at private school.

St Dunstan’s is trying to out-Dulwich the Dulwich schools, just to be aware.