School Fees - how worried are you now

[Lifeiseveryday]

So when the VAT came in, I wasn’t too worried about school fees….maybe I had my head in the sand!
However, for next year, a number of schools near us have hiked both the fees recently, alongside the VAT.
I’m feeling much more nervous now about where the fees are going to end up and the impact this will have on children. School is affordable for us but I am not sure if it is ‘value for money’ anymore.
I know there have been lots of threads on VAT but I am more worried now, than when the policy came out. So as a temperature check, how is everyone else feeling? I have 8 more years of fees…

I’ve been a private school mum for 12 years and until recently we never had large increases.

September 24 9.5%
January 25 12%

Thankfully, it’s gone back to 3.9% for September 25.

You would be suprised. I live in a very nice rural area but our catchment comp has a dreadful reputation. My friend teaches there (not permanently, on an ad-hoc basis as she is a freelance SENCO) and she advised me not to send my DC there.

Luckily, I managed to get one DC into a very high performing state grammar. The other is at a private school near to the state grammar. Our other option was to move into the catchment for a non-selective state school in the same area as the grammar but that would have meant putting another £200-250k on to the mortgage to get a similar size and specification house. We’ve opted for five years of school fees as that was the cheaper option. We are hoping to move him to state for sixth form.

Yes, @Boohoo76 move them to a state school for post 16, that's what many parents do, in the hope of maximising university opportunities.

In answer to @Lifeiseveryday ‘s question I guess it depends you define ‘value for money’

Private school seems to give convenience - longer days so not having to organise your own wrap around care if both parents work, a swimming pool on site with a specialist teacher, a range of music lessons available at school etc. All of these can be done outside of school but it takes a lot more effort on the part of the parents.

To me as an outsider looking in there seems to be negatives. Small classes - at what point do they become too small and too insular to have meaningful class conversations and debate? I know one person has 3 in their economics class - no wonder fees are so high with that kind of ratio. Very small year groups so that it’s not possible to field sports teams of a reasonable standard etc.

Lots of the costs will come from maintaining old buildings and the huge grounds that they are often in. Is that value for money? How much does learning in that sort of environment affect the child?

We looked really hard at all of the options within a couple of hours for our ds’s sixth form years and between us (it was mainly his decision) realised that no private could offer what he wanted. He’s continued at his non selective, Welsh medium, 8 form entry state comp where he is thriving.

@VeryNiceDay I’m not sure how old your dc is but would online schools such as Kings Inter high or Minerva academy be a possibility?

If you say so. In my experience, parents choose state sixth form because they know that the majority of the disruptive pupils have left by then.

@LifeiseverydayI think the schools are trying to stay open. Difficult balance between keeping fees affordable and not being able to keep up with increased costs (mostly staffing).

In my experience it's to get the benefit for UCAS, but whatever. True that the students with some additional needs etc will have gone. Although we still have students who are refugees and EAL, ADHD etc.
The biggest problem we have is that many private school parents think that they'll get a sort of 1-2-1 or at least more dedicated time, and so end up disappointed and complain. However, many parents are very positive and supportive and have a realistic view of non selective state education.

Not sure if that works
Also, some Private schools do not have a 6th form and/or there are good State options.
We live close to one of the best 6th form colleges in The UK so there is no need of Private post GCSE for us.
We certainly aren't doing it to try and game the system

On the value for money question - mine are in state schools but due to SEND/MH issues we are contemplating a change. but round here, even a pretty mediocre private day school is £10,000 PER TERM. At A levels, that gets you 12 hours of teaching a week. So about £70 per hour of lessons. I can get one to one tutors for less than that!

Firenzeflower · Today 06:19

I’m not sure if this makes you feel any better but two of my children are in Russell group universities and they went to the local comprehensive.

State schools aren’t awful. State educated children aren’t feral.
I’m genuinely sorry you’re under this stress.

You write the way you do because you don’t know any better. There’s no easy way to say it: The behaviour of children at British state schools is, on the whole, pretty bad and it seems to be getting worse. It used to be that secondary schools were the main issue but from what I hear, increasing numbers of poorly supported children with SEN in primary schools is causing a whole lot of havoc.

Do you have experience of schools in other parts of the world? I know that at least in some parts of Africa and in South Korea and Japan, the level of disorder typical in many British schools would be alien. I would be surprised to hear it happening in Chinese or Indian schools. I was in 1C, the worst class in the school behaviour-wise, but in comparison we were well behaved.

It’s great that your children ran the gauntlet and emerged relatively unscathed. It’s a testament to their toughness and resilience but other less tough children should still be able to fulfill their potential.

No, I'm sure that you won't. Most are great.

I think the main thing is that catchments no longer operate for 6th forms, and students can travel further independently, so access to sought after schools is less dependent on where exactly families live. In the area I lived in, the most highly regarded schools had 6th form intakes larger than their 11-16 PAN as well.

I don’t know which universities look only at A level school, and which look also at school where GCSEs were taken. My understanding is for Oxbridge that they look very closely at GCSE school, as they are aware of ‘gaming’ and are trying to mitigate any distortion it brings to their selection systems.

Yes, we are always clear to indicate where they had 11-16 on the reference..

There are refugees in my DC’s private school (on 100% bursaries) and plenty of children with autism and ADHD and other SEN and EAL.

I went to a state comp myself. I have first hand experience of the difference between years 7-11 and sixth form. The messing around in class disappeared in sixth form and my mental health significantly improved as a result. That’s because the badly behaved kids left. Some of them may have had SEN but plenty of them were just shit bags who didn’t want to learn and tried to make everyone else’s life miserable in the process.

I think some parents may be in for a bit of a shock at the 25/26 price rises. Some schools announced how much of the VAT they were passing on before last October’s announcement regarding NIC and living wage increases. They will now have to factor in those costs for next year, which will have a large impact.

As for the comments along the lines of “mine went to Russell Group unis from a comp”, this misses the point of private education, and I say that having been state educated myself. It is not just about grades and uni destinations. Labour has cut state funding for STEM and Latin initiatives, and is considering further cuts to dance, music and PE. Schools are now faced with making efficiency savings through staff cuts to fill the funding gap left by the promise of teacher price rises. Perhaps some state schools offer children a wide range of language options, great music provision including opportunities to visit conservatoires to be taught by their experts, excellent sporting opportunities and adequate physical activity provision, great physical and mental health support etc. Unfortunately there are no state schools like that anywhere remotely near where we live.

Those posters who think that state education isn’t a lottery are deluded. Of course it is. Some state schools are excellent. Too many are dreadful, and are failing our children.

Yea but your kids are over the worst that it has become recently. Read any of the countless threads about teachers wanting to leave and you will have an eye opener. Read any of the countless threads about kids who are struggling in these schools and you will have an eye opener. Not all state schools are bad, but the decline is increasing.
my dc are in private and the fees are exorbitant and it is a worry. For now we are focusing on that but it is a worry.

@Another76543exactly! Those whose kids have done well had the best years. You can’t compare two different times. It has changed and for the worse.

I think many people don’t realise that our children are increasingly competing on a world stage now, against children who have been educated in excellent education systems across the world. I don’t think they realised how poor our state provision is, on the whole, compared with other systems. A lot of the problems lie with the behaviour issues in many of our schools and the fact that too many people underestimate the importance of an education system where children can fulfil their potential.

@80smonster I don't understand why you are asking me those questions?

All I said was the funding model
in state schools is based on numbers of pupils? Are you saying that isn't the funding model?

@Boohoo76 I just don't think it will have a huge impact but will vary by area as I said.

move them to a state school for post 16, that's what many parents do, in the hope of maximising university opportunities.

I hear this a lot but is it really true?

Seriously? It doesn’t occur to you that many, many private schools pay extortionate amounts for the upkeep of often very old, crumbling buildings? In my experience of teaching in them they tend to be pretty tight with resources/new books etc too

@Another76543 ypure absolutely right having hosted two Japanese students this last few weeks they cannot believe our education system and I cannot believe theirs for the better. They speak good English value education are polite and interested it’s an eye opener

That’s a shame they think that. Especially when children with the same grades at a state school as a private school, do better at uni!

I teach PT in a state grammar & PT in private, educationally I'd say the grammar edges it, but on the extras front, of course at private we have the smaller class sizes and wonderful facilities, built in wraparound, casual boarding.

There are two types of privates school parent, those who have pretty normal professional or even trades (which can be better paid these days) jobs - paying the fees is a big commitment from their still reasonable earnings, and they were always going to be hurt by this the most.

Then the wealthy parents, previously landed gentry, more and more now tech entrepreneurs, medium sized business owners, top end high earning professionals and over seas moguls. To these parents the fees are not a concern even if they doubled, they are going nowhere.

So the result of labours VAT is likely to reduce the number of private schools and make private education even more elitist.