Moving from outstanding primary to good prep

[VestaTilley]

Happy New Year everyone,

I’m considering moving DS after year 1 to the prep in our small city. It’s well regarded and educates choristers as well as day/boarding pupils.

DS is at an outstanding primary school in a city that is well catered re excellent state provision at primary and secondary level; lots of upper middle class DC of senior professionals attend state here all the way through.

However, DS is a summer born boy. Very sweet and funny, academically bright and towards the top of his class re ability, but he’s inclined to be silly, not listen, joins in with the other boys who mess about (it’s a boy heavy year). His primary teacher was newly qualified so quite inexperienced, but told us he wasn’t keeping up with the required standard in writing consistently (because he daydreams and wants to go and play, not because he can’t) and she’s worried in case he has to play catch up in year 2. She said he works far better when she effectively sits with him and gives him some guidance. She’s now leaving so it’ll be another class teacher from Jan - so another teacher to settle in and get used to. The primary school is well run and I have no concerns re the Head.

He’s neurotypical and the school don’t suspect ADHD, ASD. They- and we - think he’s just young for his age and a bit immature and giggly. My question is, do I move him for smaller class sizes at prep and all the extra opportunities and wider curriculum that come with that? Or stay and see if he grows up a bit? I’m worried he’ll get lost as a “silly boy” and coast in the middle, when he could do better if challenged. DS is happy at his primary and is very popular, but I’m not sure I’d say he’s thriving. But is year 1 far too early to tell anyway? I want to give him a chance at prep to improve his behaviour and get access to music, sport, MFL. We’d be able to afford prep, just. DH is less keen and isn’t at all comfortable with private schools.

The local private senior is a top public school with mandatory boarding, which I really don’t want to do and we can’t afford. Have any of you gone back to state for secondary? There are no grammars here or nearby but as an area with a lot of affluence the cohort at secondary here are fairly comparable with grammar intake. It’s more class size that bothers me. There are senior private day schools but would be a drive to the next city and I don’t think have better outcomes than our local comps.

We both work and can ferry DS to 3/4 activities per week but it largely falls on me to do this; I input far more in to spelling and reading practice etc than DH does, so would quite like the back up of prep on that front too.

I’d appreciate any insight or advice. So sorry this is long.

If you moved him would the private school be willing to pit him in the year below?

Watching this thread because I have exactly the same with my summer born son who is also in year 1. My husband is of the view that we should relax until he is about 7/8 when he might (hopefully) mature a bit, right now all he wants to do is play and does not care for the academics which I think is not unusual

I wouldn't move him under the circumstances you describe. A private setting is not a magic bullet and there's no guarantee you would resolve anything with a move. He is settled and happy and doing fine. You don't need him to be top of the class. He's only 5 and nothing is predictable yet. The new teacher after January may be grear, who knows? The best thing to do would be to find an extracurriclar activity that he'll need to practice to get good at, to teach the value of buckling down - something fun where he can feel a sense of ambition. Keep him at the school where he is happy.

Thank you @Mamaspice89 that’s my experience too. My worry is he might not mature or suddenly decide to knuckle down if his behaviour has been established and he’s in a dynamic as the slightly silly boy in class. I also don’t want to leave it too late to move him when a gap will have opened up with the prep pupils.

@52for2025 I haven’t asked this and don’t think he’d need it; he’s very bright, he’s just more interested in playing but I think a school with a 1:5 staff to pupil ratio would help this.

Isn't the general consensus state until time for secondary and then private?

How recent was the Ofsted excellent rating?

Think I'd leave him where he is and put more work in at home.

Thank you @Bankholidayhelp Ofsted was just before Christmas. I’m putting in all the work I can at home but DH doesn’t put the effort in to parenting in the same way. He can do discipline but not the meaningful sitting down with DS and getting him to focus or sit and do his spellings, work through a maths activity book or do extra reading. That’s all on me. Fine for now but not in 5+ years when the maths homework gets harder…

Thank you @PokerFriedDips I appreciate that. I don’t want to move him when he’s happy either. But I’m also worried about him mucking about, staying in the middle when he could have done better and this ultimately impacting exam results and his chances. We’ve tried to get him piano lessons which he wants but no local teacher takes them before the age of 6.5. He does swimming and drama outside of school, he’s on the waiting list for Beavers and does a board games club at school, plus we take him to church.

He’s only in Y1!
Give him some more time. Y1 is where expectations start to change in school - sitting at desks for longer periods, listening for longer, less continuous provision etc many children need more time to adjust to this.
MFL at Y1 when he can’t concentrate properly currently should not be a priority!
I also find it interesting that you seem to be suggesting that it is other boys who distract your son, he will very much be contributing to the messing about. Focus on ensuring that he knows how to behave in school and support the school when they report poorer behaviour.
He seems like he needs 1:1 to focus so if you do move him to prep then you’ll need to check they have the staff available to give him the attention he needs.

I worry about this too but as he clearly is not ready to sit down and learn (his teacher agrees with this too) we took the view that too much pressure may not be good for him. We have friends who send their kids to private schools and the pace and expectation is very high. I know not all private schools are the same but right now we are lucky if we can get him to sit down and read a few pages lol where are you based?

@Tristar15 oh no I definitely know it’s him, he’s as much the ringleader as the others and is in a group of five “silly” boys. The teacher says they’re just silly and want to have fun, as opposed to there being any bullying or malice at all, I just wonder whether he wouldn’t fare better in a smaller class.

We ask the teacher for weekly behaviour reports, asked for an extra parents evening before the teacher left and do reward charts at school and home. I’m very alive to the fact he is so young and may grow out of it, but equally if he doesn’t I don’t want to have left it too late to move him to prep in a way which actually gives him time to have a second chance.

But orginal post is all about how the problem is that he is too young for year 1, putting him into reception now solves that problem.

My DD is in reception at a private school and has been highlighted as struggling with reading. Although I’m sure that the smaller class sizes mean she is less behind than she would be in state. The catch-up support the school are suggesting is at an additional cost of £45 an hour. So speak to the school, be 100% honest with them and ask about their approach.

From a primary education point of view if I was time rich and proactive, I’m confident that I could top up a state education to be equivalent to what she’s getting in private.

However, our situation is pretty unique in the fact that DD is physically disabled and private school has proved to be significantly more inclusive than state school making it 100% worth the money.

Mine didn't settle down till Y3. I think that's quite common with boys. All he wanted to do was get out into the playground and play before Y3. He didn't even write properly till he was 7. Luckily the lovely primary school were totally relaxed about it and said he would mature in Y3 and they were right.

I'm sure most children would do better with smaller classes and more attention but if he's bright and it's a case of being a bit young and silly and not SN and the school is good, I would wait and give him a chance to sort himself out as he gets older.

Thanks @Mamaspice89 we’re in the south east. He will read and write when he wants to and is engaged. His behaviour is best when he’s learning something new or has gone somewhere new and is stimulated.

I visited the prep (and pre prep) before he started school and will contact the registrar and ask for a meeting I think. I’ll also speak to the Head of his primary and ask how she sees things panning out for summer born boys generally.

Why not meet half way and get a tutor?

Or sign him up for online lessons?

That way it takes the pressure of you somewhat and it costs less than private school.

His behaviour to me suggests dyslexia. The silliness, being popular and good with people, reluctance to work - usually because it takes more effort rather than not being capable.

Can he move classes? Are there less silly boys in another class?

He may mature, but don’t focus on one cause, being young for the year, there could be other factors.

Thank you @woolflower and @OldEarAche both helpful perspectives.

I don’t think he’d need his own TA, it’s more just having a lower pupil to teacher ratio would be better. @52for2025 he’s young in a way lots of summer born boys are, including others mentioned on this thread; he’s academically very capable and putting him down a year would be far more damaging.

I think the experience of @OldEarAche‘s DC may be far closer to our situation. The question is will he mature like her DS in year 3 and then knuckle down? In which case we’ll be fine. What’s eating me up is the not knowing what to do for the best.

I’ll ask the new class teacher for her view around Feb half term and will speak to the Head around spring time also. I agree moving could be a huge gamble that might not work or may even backfire.

If any of you moved primary DC in to prep I’d also be grateful for any positives and negative experiences.

Is he happy, and settled, in his current school?
If yes - then keep him there.
He'll 'catch up' in his own time.
You're lucky he's in such a good school.

Thank you @Silvertulips he reads well and writes (when he chooses to) fairly well so I haven’t suspected dyslexia but will ask the school.

It’s a two form entry school in a very boy heavy year, so just as many silly boys in the other class I’m afraid.

My daughter has started prep at a highly regarded academically selective school. What we’ve learnt in the first few months is they achieve their result by overworking the student rather than teaching them how to study efficiently and effectively. This results in lots of homework which creates a significant workload for mum and dad, especially as the children are v.tired as they’ve only just started school.

He's in Y1, please relax a little and let him be a child.

How much do you do with him at home? I know it's more protective of your self esteem to say it's not ability/understanding he's just silly but I wouldn't disregard the idea that he could be not understanding or following and then messing about as a result.

What does your school do to manage his behaviour? Did you talk to someone other than inexperienced teacher? In our school children move tables if misbehave until they find good combination, also there was a TA until Y4 sitting at the trickiest table, someone even got their own table right in front of the teacher to not distract others/be distracted. If you are not on the same page with DH on school fees, I'd try everything else before moving to private. And you could always get tutors in Eng and Maths for a fraction of price of private schooling if worried about academics.

There're 2 approaches to summer-born kids. Some prefer to put them into younger year group (deferred entry) so that they feel smarter and look more mature in comparison with classmates. One of friends did this and everyone's happy. Main reason was they didn't want to push him with homework and learning too much.

Another opinion is that being with older kids sets a better, more mature example for DC. In addition, my DS is quite tall so I was worried he'll be like Gulliver in a classroom if I ask for deferred entry. I think it was beneficial as I can see how kids change - in Y4 there's no silly behaviour in his class at all.

We moved at 8 so for entrance into year 3.

Around us it's pre-preps reception-year 2. In the pre-prep there isn't really much additional MFL etc.

Prep starts at year 3 and that is when it transitions to mostly one teacher with specialists coming in for MFL, sport, music etc.

Reception to year 2 in privates (certainly around us) was mostly smaller class sizes not additional extra curricular.

You seem to have two issues- wanting access to extra curricular which a prep will have but it is possible for you to provide yourself outside of the state school system.

Eg consider an instrument other than piano to start on - many places have Kodai style musicianship classes for ages 5-7 which my kids did very successfully. Recorder or ocarina is also a good instrument to start on and will help with reading music,

The privates will have smaller class sizes (which you also mention) but a smaller class size in and of itself will not solve the issue of your son being a "silly boy". They also won't necessarily be happy about your son struggling to meet expectations in writing - certainly around me entry at year 3 is quite competitive and you need to consider the possibility that they may reject your son.

In addition, any catch up tuition that they recommend will be at a price. My son had issues (at one point we were looking at an autism diagnosis) and he had speech therapy through the school. It cost 60 pounds an hour.

I have an August boy. He was like this in year 1 in fact he was getting extra help with reading. He just got A*AA at A level. I think you are worrying prematurely.

I'll go against the grain, OP, and say a great start is very important. My DC went to a very good primary school and are now flying in secondary school. My older DS had a poorer start and it showed for his whole school life. I think even if you're DS moves back to state for secondary, as long as it's a good school, he'll be 'set up' to succeed. I would also take into account the exposure to more activities where he may find something he truly loves and excels in. I don't think there's any harm in giving it a try as it could really affect his whole life whereas if you move him and it's not that great, you're probably no worse off. I do doubt that a new teacher at this time of year will be a great teacher so he'll have lost a year.

I wouldn't put him down a year as the secondary school may not accept that. (You basically need to reapply as summer born in the 'wrong' year - and they don't all accept that).

I'd leave him where he is.
When you said he 'reads well' and 'writes well' what do you mean? He's in Year 1 so can he write a sentence using a simple connective without any support? Is he reading sentences using decodable words aloud without too much segmenting (fluently) and then answering any comprehension questions?
I'm not really a betting woman but I think there's more to this than just being silly. The jump from reception to year 1 is big and you haven't given him much time to settle into this new routine. He may also be finding the work hard based on what the teacher said about him not being at the required standard for writing. My advice to you would be put the effort and money into a home tutor a few times a week - specific focus on the phonics screening check and applying himself in his writing then you giving him lots of opportunities to do this at home.
Overall, he's very young and he will be fine even if you do nothing because he's so young. I'm a teacher and academics isn't everything, all children will find their thing even if it's not Oxbridge.