Moving from outstanding primary to good prep

[VestaTilley]

Happy New Year everyone,

I’m considering moving DS after year 1 to the prep in our small city. It’s well regarded and educates choristers as well as day/boarding pupils.

DS is at an outstanding primary school in a city that is well catered re excellent state provision at primary and secondary level; lots of upper middle class DC of senior professionals attend state here all the way through.

However, DS is a summer born boy. Very sweet and funny, academically bright and towards the top of his class re ability, but he’s inclined to be silly, not listen, joins in with the other boys who mess about (it’s a boy heavy year). His primary teacher was newly qualified so quite inexperienced, but told us he wasn’t keeping up with the required standard in writing consistently (because he daydreams and wants to go and play, not because he can’t) and she’s worried in case he has to play catch up in year 2. She said he works far better when she effectively sits with him and gives him some guidance. She’s now leaving so it’ll be another class teacher from Jan - so another teacher to settle in and get used to. The primary school is well run and I have no concerns re the Head.

He’s neurotypical and the school don’t suspect ADHD, ASD. They- and we - think he’s just young for his age and a bit immature and giggly. My question is, do I move him for smaller class sizes at prep and all the extra opportunities and wider curriculum that come with that? Or stay and see if he grows up a bit? I’m worried he’ll get lost as a “silly boy” and coast in the middle, when he could do better if challenged. DS is happy at his primary and is very popular, but I’m not sure I’d say he’s thriving. But is year 1 far too early to tell anyway? I want to give him a chance at prep to improve his behaviour and get access to music, sport, MFL. We’d be able to afford prep, just. DH is less keen and isn’t at all comfortable with private schools.

The local private senior is a top public school with mandatory boarding, which I really don’t want to do and we can’t afford. Have any of you gone back to state for secondary? There are no grammars here or nearby but as an area with a lot of affluence the cohort at secondary here are fairly comparable with grammar intake. It’s more class size that bothers me. There are senior private day schools but would be a drive to the next city and I don’t think have better outcomes than our local comps.

We both work and can ferry DS to 3/4 activities per week but it largely falls on me to do this; I input far more in to spelling and reading practice etc than DH does, so would quite like the back up of prep on that front too.

I’d appreciate any insight or advice. So sorry this is long.

My ds is spring born in a class of majority summer born boys (weird coincidence) and about 50:50 boys and girls.

Also lucky to have a great state primary that I really trust and has lots of trips, outdoor space/pond/forest school/vast playground facilities (very active PTA has built up over time a lot of “extras” that all the kids benefit from). And it’s above average academically so all fine.

There are a bunch of boys in the class who are, unsurprisingly, very immature - two of them are late-August babies. Together they are like a riotous pack of siblings who just want mischief and giggles!

y1 teacher is also relatively new and I was worried she would be soft but actually she has set very high behaviour expectations and I have encouraged her to set firm boundaries, separate the boys in class, and give consequences (losing breaktime) and tell me or dh whenever my ds is misbehaving, ditto for ASC. And then I add a small consequence for very bad behaviour and just a conversation with ds for a mild loss of control which is just a reminder of what the right behaviour is (he has to tell me what he should have done, and what he’ll do next time - if he gets it wrong, I correct him).

This approach has been immensely effective - plus the fact DS is a term older than your son. I can see him getting more focused and determined day by day.

We also practice concentration at home - we create quiet space for home learning and reading and we do it religiously - same place, same time, 6 days a week. We talk during this time about what it’s like at school where it is noisy and distracting - about his friend tearing up ds’s paper or chatting or poking him or stealing all the red crayons. We practice saying “please don’t do that, I’m trying to concentrate”. We practice using our body language to show we are busy and not enjoying the fun and giggles.

My ds also goes to a junior martial arts club since age 4 which is great for his self discipline - his instructors don’t take any crap - if you misbehave and don’t listen, you sit on the sidelines for ten mins (lesson is 45 mins). No one misbehaves more than once or twice in my experience. So I know he CAN control his behaviour - he can listen/focus with his brain AND control what his body is doing physically - and therefore I have set my expectation for school similarly.

all in all: this way it takes TIME. Whilst you might want a solution now, you can’t force your ds to grow up. But you can reinforce all the good behaviours at home and make progress inside a term.

A private school would help - definitely- because there would be someone there reminding your ds to stay focused what is the right behaviour for the right occasion.

Remember that a lot of kids make progress in lurches same as when they were babies: I don’t believe my ds’s transformation is due solely to my excellent parenting 😝 - I just managed to do these things during à “developmental leap” when he was ready to learn.

I think the question is exactly as you’ve positioned it: are you prepared to wait? It’s a tough one honestly. I opted for waiting as I’m not concerned about ds being highly academic - I think he’ll be fine, but not brilliant, and I’m not keen to hot house him.

if I wanted academic brilliance, my ds would be in private school like a shot, to maximise this time when he’s very willing to learn.

and getting him to focus or sit and do his spellings, work through a maths activity book or do extra reading. That’s all on me. Fine for now but not in 5+ years when the maths homework gets harder…

He’s in year 1 - try to relax a bit. He doesn’t need to be working through a maths activity book. He needs to do his homework.

Weekly reports from the class teacher are too much too. He’s not in nursery anymore.

I'm a Ks1 teacher. He sounds normal and doing well! Small classes are clearly beneficial for every child but nothing you've said raises concerns that he's not coping or he's not happy. I'd leave him where he is.

Do you mean weekly behaviour reports where you verbally have a two minute chat with the teacher on a Friday or are you expecting something written? If so, it's too much and you need to change this to the teacher contacting you only if there's any concerns.

Give it a go with the new teacher - it might make a massive difference. DD also struggled with classroom expectations in y1, but in y2 we had a new teacher with a different style and all issues disappeared. I think our y1 teacher was lovely, but our y2 teacher was much more experienced and just had an approach that really worked with dd in terms of getting the best out of her.

I would also recommend seriously querying the private school’s ethos and approach to education and make sure it is a good match for your son now that you know a bit more about how he learns and where he thrives. He might not do well in a school that really pushes academics from early, and might need a more balanced approach. Our Indy is probably a bit behind state schools in terms of curriculum for the first handful of years but by y6 will be ahead - much more of a focus on making children are secure in learning and on social/emotional development for the first few years. It is a good fit for our dc, but might not be for everyone, and some parents express frustration that children aren’t being pushed along fast enough. Don’t get sucked into the school marketing - it might be a brilliant school on many levels and still not a good match for your ds.

As for all the rest, I do appreciate all the extra stuff in school now that we move into ks2. For the early years the biggest advantages were small class sizes, but also the amount of time children had to move - more PE, longer play breaks, forest school, etc. At that age (all through primary really) many children aren’t really ready to sit and focus for long periods and need regular movement breaks. Most of the private schools we looked at are much better at providing that than the state school we started in due to space / facilities, longer days and flexibility in the curriculum.

My August-born boy really benefited from being in a class of 8 with a teacher and a TA in Reception. He was not really school-ready and the high level of attention made a huge difference to him.

Another benefit was the lack of statutory test time-frame panic. DS was well behind even approaching the end of Y2 (would not have passed phonics screening or Y2 SATs), his inability to write being the main problem. The school did a battery of NVR tests which showed that he was an able child and put a 'flag' on him in the system so when he started seeing lots of teachers in Y3 they all maintained high expectations of him. Other than that, they just waited and treated him like everybody else. At the state primary where I teach, he would never have been in an afternoon subject lesson because he would have been in so many intervention groups from Y1 onwards, subtly giving him the message he was failing. I expect a barrage of intervention groups, potentially during curriculum time, is what your teacher means by 'playing catch-up'.

Academically, things 'clicked' for him in Y7-8 (still at prep school). If he'd been setted/ flight-pathed for secondary in Y7 based on the very average Y6 SATs results he would have got, I suspect he would have been middle-sets with associated expectations. By the time he was setted for seniors in Y9, he was in top set for everything, including English. He is now on track for all 8/9s (maybe a 7 in language) next year. The extra time he's been afforded by the Y9, rather than Y7, senior transition has also made a big difference.

@MoggetsCollar very similar experience. We pulled our dc from state when 1 term into reception they expressed concerns about the y2 phonics screener and had pulled child into daily intervention groups that meant missing out on all the enrichment type activities like art and forest school that had been our primary reason for selecting the school in the first place. It was well intentioned, but basically meant dc spent all of school doing things they struggled with (just not ready to read) and never got the chance to do things they enjoyed or were good at. In the private school dc had a weekly 30 min 1:1 for literacy, and a bit more targeted TA support in the classroom, but was able to participate fully in the broader curriculum while their reading/writing gradually caught up with year expectations. I think things like SATs are well intentioned, but sometimes incentivise behaviour that is not in the child’s best interests.

My ds also goes to a junior martial arts club since age 4 which is great for his self discipline - his instructors don’t take any crap - if you misbehave and don’t listen, you sit on the sidelines for ten mins (lesson is 45 mins). No one misbehaves more than once or twice in my experience.
Both DGS have been going to martial arts classes since a very young age and I agree with you how good it has been for discipline. DGS1 is on the spectrum and it helps him enormously.

Thank you so much all for your replies and the time you’ve taken; I’m hugely grateful. I’ll aim to reply individually tonight. Hope you’re all enjoying a lovely New Year’s Day.

Moving him to the prep won't change his personality or behaviour. You need to work with him a bit at home. You need to support the school in managing the silliness. He won't magically become a quiet kid just because you move him to a private school.

I wouldn't move him
Sounds like the Primary school is fine so there is no point in going for Private if it will be a struggle financially.
Also, moving from Private prep to State Secondary can be a lot harder than the other way

I have a summer born Year 1 who sounds quite similar! For me, the key question is whether he likes the school. DS adores school and enjoys every minute. For me, that is far more important at this stage than anything else. But I was also a clever child who coasted for most of their school career and ended up with 4 As at A-level and an Oxbridge degree so I also think there's a skill in knowing when you can coast and when you need to pull your finger out 😂

Of course he's 'more interested in playing' - he's year 1 for goodness sake.

He's 6! He'll grow out of it.

I cannot echo this enough.

Hi @Sherrystrull @LittleBearPad thank you- helpful points. No, I just meant a 2 min verbal “how has he been behaviour-wise this week?” at school pick up on a Friday. Certainly nothing written!

@mynameiscalypso ha, you sound like my DH 😂 he didn’t work all that hard but ended up at Oxbridge because he was insanely bright 😂

Thank you @MonopolyQueen our DS’s would probably get on like a house on fire 😂 you sound like a truly excellent Mum.

My approach is similar to yours eg, reflecting on our expectations, what could’ve been done better, doing quiet (short!) learning tasks at home and praising good behaviour, plus talking about how he can control how he behaves. I’m just worried about him getting in to a rut at school where he tells himself he’s a naughty boy and that leads to a cycle we can’t get out of.

I absolutely agree with all of you who say he’ll grow out of it. But my DH was quite young for his age into his bloody twenties but he was also v bright and swotty, so it didn’t matter. I’m just worried about DS being academically able but falling behind. No interventions needed as per a pp comment, just carrying over Y1 written work in to Y2 and a gap opening.

I absolutely don’t think prep is a silver bullet and know moving a happy child is a huge risk, but I’m also worried about only trying to manage his behaviour (at home and with school), failing, and bloody regretting it later. Which of course none of us can ever know. The odds are in his favour as a boy living in a naice part of the country with good local schools and engaged parents. But I can’t help but worrying.

I’m going to see how the next 6 months go with the new teacher, talk to the primary head and visit the prep again with DH. Maybe by summer I’ll have calmed the fuck down got myself in to a more informed position.

Thank you all for comments and feedback either way. It’s all much appreciated.

Winchester? 🤔

With a class of 30 it's a bloody good thing all the other parents aren't doing the same!

I personally think you can't really compare state and private schools and trying to do it is meaningless unless you're in the kind of rich catchment areas most Labour MPs end up buying in lol

You have to look beyond the rating. What are class sizes like? How engaged are the kids? What secondaries do the kids end up at? Eg selective private preps in grammar catchments tend to only aim for grammars, parents aiming for selective private schools often use different preps.

I would also look at the extras eg sports, music, other extracurriculars, pastoral care and compare them.