To think a lot of people who agree with VAT on school fees…

[geeenuoe]

Actually don’t truly understand that to most sending their kids to these schools, it is a massive, massive struggle already.

There seems to be a mentality that if you can afford 20k a year then you’re already comfortable so sod it, you should find more cash now for vat … but do people in general not understand that some families re mortgage their homes to pay these fees? Yes there’s mega wealthy people but there’s many, many more who are not.

On the one hand we hear a good education is a luxury so VAT must be applied, then on the other we are told a good education is a right for all. So… why are we taking away that good education from those who already have it? Why is the focus not on sorting out the state sector properly? We all know the vat won’t fix the state sector. It may help in a tiny way in ad hoc circumstances but there’s so so so much more that needs to be done to state schools to make them ever match what the private sector offers.

I simply don’t get this mentality that those making sacrifices must make more when it comes to bloody education. I say this as someone who can’t afford the fees but if I could I absolutely would… and I also acknowledge that I am unwilling to go to some lengths that others will to pay it. I respect the choice of others to make such sacrifices and have no desire to make it harder and more inaccessible for the masses to access it. Similarly, I know plenty of people driving fancy cars and spending loads on holidays… they’ve chosen that over school fees. And those who have spend loads getting into a postcode of a decent state school… should they be paying enhanced tax on their house purchase?

Why do most people think those who pay schools fees are doing so with great ease? Is it basically because they don’t personally know people paying this so accept the media narrative that it’s the mega rich only?

@conniefromaccounts maybe hide the thread then? Just a thought

It's not about not having empathy
it's about having choice
working hard doing what you feel is right
some of the comments on here are disgusting
people choose state or private ultimately your choice.
it's no one's business wether there are canapés or equestrian centres.
my son in state school was taught all sorts of nonsense about gender and sex in year 6
we removed him and put him in a faith school. No bullying no racism no gender ideology it's win win for us.
There is no equestrian centre, no canapés no flash cars.
sport and music in state schools barely exists
33% of this years Olympic athletes were privately educated. Fast forward 8 years we will have no medals at the Olympics
80% of private school fees are for staff salaries.
so parents are taxed once, taxed again then the teachers are taxed.
Bridget Phillipson hasn't factored in all the children who will now be homeschooled
As she will need to set up a department to check on the well being of all of these children.
I could go on but it's about choice it shouldn't be about envy which is what Phillipson is trying to do and start a class war.

Ah come on, that's just silly. Nobody is trying to bring down people who are "putting their children first". Almost all parents put their children first. But some aren't financially able to do as much for theirs as others are. And they resent other parents buying advantage over their own children. When people see private schools being VAT exempt it makes them think that rich parents are not only able to buy advantage but even get tax deducted from their purchase.

Nobody wants to bring anyone down; they want fairness. You want the best for your children and they feel (we feel) that the taxpayer is giving you a leg up but not giving them the same support

Your whining and privilege is so offensive to those of us will go into school tomorrow and quietly remove children to give them breakfast. You have no idea.

That is not vat on mortgage repayments. Nor is it different that what everyone pays. It is genetal taxation, not a tax on educational choice.

Surely that in itself should be reported to social services. As a school I hope your safe guarding team are on top of that
That has nothing to do with this thread

'we' @geeenuoe ?

I thought you couldn't afford private school fees? 🤔

The point I'm making is that this policy, regardless of fairness or quality of implementation, is a irrelevant in the face of all the problems facing this country, yet it was the centrepiece of Labour's election campaign.

This thread is a bunch of people complaining/celebrating about some form of redistribution, but it's not going to solve much.

Ineffective delivery of services like health will obviously have an impact on tax revenues, but poor policy makes it ineffective - it's much easier to get votes by giving pay rises to doctors whilst cutting capex or research but it may well be terrible policy from an economic growth perspective. Labour is axing super computer labs, the Tories axed HS2, no one builds nuclear power, local councils and NIMBYs are blocking data centres and houses - no wonder we are poor!

Lack of long term planning and vision from our policy makers, and also lack of economic knowledge from the electorate makes it impossible to talk about economic growth and how it will help poor people. So we vote for policies that make us poorer, and then argue amongst ourselves about redistribution.

This thread (and many such threads across Mumsnet) highlights the cultural barrier we have as a country to money and wealth, and therefore effective policy. Many don't celebrate richer people earning money and paying more taxes. I think many people would prefer it if everyone was equally poor.

@RachPelders given we’ve been saving for secondary we hope to move to private soon. As I’ve said multiple times.

It's a tax on choice though. The same as private school is a choice.

how about every single parent is charged every year for a state school pace. The amount of money the government could make from this would be enormous and turn the state education system around in an instant.

Missed it sorry. I've not analysed every post.

Anyway, like I said earlier...being bitter about it is all rather pointless isn't it. It's like it or lump it territory now.

I grew up on a council estate, but actually my child's private school does a lot of work around empathy. Also developing a social conscious etc. I have a great deal of empathy for people whose needs are not being met within the state system. I support more money being spent on education. But I also have massive empathy for the children who will suffer from this policy, for the parents completely stressed out trying to make the impossible hapoen to keep their children at school and the poor, deluded fools who imagine this is a panacea for state schools and are just about to find out that this is just another brexit bus.

Children have to change schools for many reasons all the time. That can be stressful which ever sector you are in. I'm not sure why we are supposed to feel more worried about children who are moving from private to state.

Given according to the institute for fiscal studies average income earners in the UK pay the lowest levels of tax in the west and higher income earners in the UK pay some of the highest levels of tax in the developed world I think it's time for those average income earners to start paying more tax. Belgium pays 40% tax at an income of 12,000 euros - perhaps we should do the same? Perhaps then more average earners might start to give a damn about how taxes are spent and how much the government wastes.

If you earn less than 65k a year you are being subsidised by those who earn over 65k a year. This is because on average the cost of government services consumed by a person costs more tax than they pay if they earn less than 65k.

Average and low earners are being massively subsidised by people who according to the institute for Fiscal Studies pay among the highest levels of tax in the world.

Perhaps average income earners should start paying European levels of income tax?

Average income earners effectively have a massive tax break themselves and should start to pay more tax rather than trying to tax people who already pay massive amounts of tax.

Belgium pays 40% tax at 12,000 euros a year. Let's start that here too. Sounds great, then everyone else can share the pain and we can all be in it together.

Not bitter and jealous at all. I doesn’t affect me so I simply don’t care. My kids are adults and went to excellent state schools. I never once yearned to send them to a private school. It’s simply indifference.

@geeenuoe you will have children apologising in schools shortly because of how fortunate they are.

That's not realistic when one form has money pumped into it and the other is in desperate need of funding & resources (I'm a teacher- I spend a lot of my own money to buy things for my class). All schools should be equally funded allowing all children to have access to the same resources, activities and opportunities.

Personally I would like to see private education abolished. But I accept that's not going to happen. Failing that I would like to see no tax breaks for private education.

And I would also like to see all private school parents behaving like the ones in my social circle do. That is, not referring to the sacrifices they have to make, and how hard they work and how they "had no choice". Not reacting with disgust and horror at the very prospect of their child going to the schools 93% of kids go to and making hideous assumptions about low achievement and bullying and violence. It's easy really. I think it's called being a civilised and empathetic human being-regardless of sector.

Oh, and to preempt some responses, the people who talk about boaters and toffs and TimNiceButDims can wind their necks in too. Fortunately there don't seem to be as many of them.

It doesn’t make uncomfortable reading at all apart from the woe is me, I’m just scraping by to pay the school fees we’re driving a battered Volvo and haven’t even been abroad. Meanwhile I’m in the Rijksmuseum, the Louvre, Museum of fine art in Boston, MOMA NY, plus all other places we’ve saved up to take the children because can’t remortgage to pay for their education and we only have a joint income of £50k

It’s just so ill thought out in my opinion. Are they going to add VAT to private tutoring, extra- curricular activities, sports clubs etc? Those that purchase these things are lucky to be able to afford it and it gives our dc an advantage. People are going on about a level playing field - well why only go after private school parents only?

Everyone earning above the threshold pays tax some of which is used for education. Childless people too as they benefit from an educated workforce. I mentioned this way back but the conversation is going round in circles now.

@Happyher indifference would be not even clicking on the thread, let alone posting!

@Superhansrantowindsor

one easy answer to that - the politics of envy and it helped get labour in. State schools won’t change, sadly, vat or not.