To think a lot of people who agree with VAT on school fees…

[geeenuoe]

Actually don’t truly understand that to most sending their kids to these schools, it is a massive, massive struggle already.

There seems to be a mentality that if you can afford 20k a year then you’re already comfortable so sod it, you should find more cash now for vat … but do people in general not understand that some families re mortgage their homes to pay these fees? Yes there’s mega wealthy people but there’s many, many more who are not.

On the one hand we hear a good education is a luxury so VAT must be applied, then on the other we are told a good education is a right for all. So… why are we taking away that good education from those who already have it? Why is the focus not on sorting out the state sector properly? We all know the vat won’t fix the state sector. It may help in a tiny way in ad hoc circumstances but there’s so so so much more that needs to be done to state schools to make them ever match what the private sector offers.

I simply don’t get this mentality that those making sacrifices must make more when it comes to bloody education. I say this as someone who can’t afford the fees but if I could I absolutely would… and I also acknowledge that I am unwilling to go to some lengths that others will to pay it. I respect the choice of others to make such sacrifices and have no desire to make it harder and more inaccessible for the masses to access it. Similarly, I know plenty of people driving fancy cars and spending loads on holidays… they’ve chosen that over school fees. And those who have spend loads getting into a postcode of a decent state school… should they be paying enhanced tax on their house purchase?

Why do most people think those who pay schools fees are doing so with great ease? Is it basically because they don’t personally know people paying this so accept the media narrative that it’s the mega rich only?

You do pay tax on expensive housing, this is my point. We just don't call it VAT.

And perhaps if it is only affordable to a lucky few, more tax should be paid on this too.

@FluffletheMeow why don’t we just redistribute all money at source so we all have the exact same amount. Sorted.

It's more that she's paying much more for her house if it's in a good school catchment area. The money may not go to the taxman, but it still comes out of her pocket

Just think how many yachts and cars they could buy if they didn’t pay school fees though and went on a shopping spree.

What, exactly, do you define as “an education”? Not grades, then what? What do you think is so much better in these private schools? Oh yes, the absence of the kids from the council estate and their downwardly mobile families - it’s such total nonsense

The idea that the state sector is no good is just not true. My children go to average state schools, we could send them private, but we value them mixing with all sorts of people - because, guess what, that’s what the world is full of. I contribute to their schools, I’m a governor at another school, I do my bit, as do loads of other parents. Where do you get the idea that nobody gets involved, when you’re talking about 93% of parents in this country?

Add VAT, tax the hell out of it - it’s a terrible system, and sending your children is not a sacrifice; it’s a self-serving act, because your precious darlings “deserve” the best. As per previous post, I say this having gone myself and being comfortably able to afford to send my children - no envy here, scrap the whole thing, and bring down the entitled posh w*nker count in every large workplace while you’re at it. Winning 🥇

Do you not approve of taxation at all?

If you do, how would you apply it?

@godlikeAI if you are happy with average state education why do you need money from people choosing to send to private?

Exactly this. At far higher rates than were necessary, all in the name of giving our dc the best education. I don't expect a discount on our 'fees' though.

Anyway, all this handwringing is fairly pointless. It's happening so private school parents can suck it up and pay the higher fees or switch to the free alternative.

What I'm pretty sure of is that the vast majority of the UK won't be losing sleep over it.

It is more alarming that this poster purports to be a teacher too...and yet thinks it's appropriate to call kids "a bit thick".

Gosh, not a paltry two holidays a year. How do they cope?

Only half of private schools are businesses, the other half are not allowed to make a profit

Of course, that one school is exactly the same as every independent. Most don't have pools, let alone equestrian facilities, at least here so your example is not at all representative.

@Sasha82 oh I had missed that! Doesn’t surprise me, though, sadly.

winegums88, I'm not entirely clear on the point you're making. This is ultimately all about national productivity, isn't it? A well educated , healthy workforce that is economically productive and raises the next generation of workers without too much pull on the national purse?

A rational, effective tax policy has to take money from those who are not just theoretically able to pay it but who will actually do so. There is of course an argument that if we tax the very wealthy too hard they will take their toys and leave, or fund expensive accountants to find loopholes. I get that, I don't know how much it happens.

But I do know that poverty, long term sickness, lack of social care and poor mental health are having a serious impact on economic productivity (thr Institute of Public Policy Research has done some good research lately). In the light of that, arguments that VAT will cause problems to those who drive cheap cars and only have one overseas holiday seem a bit irrelevant.

I don't wish those people ill. But we desperately need national renewal and everyone must play their part. For too long, the very poor have taken the brunt and that is not only unjust, it is rebounding on us in reduced productivity and higher emergency social care.

You will never end up with a situation where all things are level.

How do you stop private tutoring?
How do you stop highly educated parents teaching their children?
How do you stop parents sending their children overseas to private schools?
How do you deal with the fact that London parents have a vast choice of schools and those on Dartmoor have one? Not all state schools are equal by any stretch.
How do you stop groups of parents "home-schooling" and hiring ex-masters from Eton? Well those who haven't been whisked off to Eton-sur-Loire.

People seeking to give their children the best start in life they can is a very normal and very powerful motivator.

Let's hope they stop the use of the pool for your swimming lessons so you can feel less envious !

Private schools seem to be failing very badly in teaching empathy.

Actually I'm state school educated myself.

Whereas the state school teacher calling kids thick is doing a wonderful job.

Because more money is clearly a useful thing. More or better facilities, better pay for teachers etc. If it happens to come from people doing something I fundamentally disagree with, so much the better. It’s not often that it gets funnelled so directly.

The “sacrifice” argument is just rubbish. Admit you’re buying privilege (aka “not grades, an education”) and be done.

@godlikeAI you are in for a shock if you think this money will go to state schools, and, in particular, if it will have any impact. Good luck going through life trying to bring those down who are simply putting their children first.

I can see that there are plenty of people with children in state school who could make the same choice. But they didn't. They choose cars and holidays, or fancy clothes or whatever instead of education and they want me to pay more to sort out state education.

I am 100% happy to fund state education through taxation and I understand that there are many people who could not afford an independent school regardless of how hard they try. I would not have chosen to, circumstances forced our hand due to our child having special needs. What really, really pisses me off is the number of people with incomes way exceeding ours calling us some privileged elite. People who who boast about earning hundreds of thousands and using state school.

Actually, if everyone who earns similarly to us went independent and the same amount of money currently spent on state education stayed in the system, that would cover many times more teachers than VAT, fund breakfast clubs, improve SEND provision, vastly improvethe state sector basically.

Plus, what us wrong with choosing school over holidays?! Should that not be seen as a positive choice? Why should it be punished?

@Snugglemonkey because it makes for uncomfortable reading for many parents who are unwilling to give up holidays and cars for the sake of good education. Much easier to label you as super rich and elitist. They can continue spending on themselves while we then subsidise the state sector further.

I could not give a single shit about what a struggle it is for you to send your kids to private school.

Most of us can't afford it at all as just living is a massive struggle.

NO ONE CARES.