Cambridge University discriminates against children from private schools.

[Marchesman]

MN threads persist in claiming that Oxford and Cambridge Universities do not discriminate against private schools. Now two "academics" have written a half-baked book that argues for further reductions in the number of Oxbridge students from private schools (to 10% of the intake).

In 2023 at Cambridge 19.9% of students from comprehensive schools obtained first class degrees (23.5% from grammar schools) compared with 28.6% from private schools - evidence of unequivocal discrimination against the latter at the point of entry.

Cambridge's own analysis shows that British state-educated students already significantly underperform relative to foreign and privately educated British students. If more of the latter are excluded, the inevitable outcome will be that at these universities the best students are foreign, while the best British pupils decamp to US universities.

Is this really what the Left wants? If so why?

Because it favours students who are not necessarily any better but have had a bunch of money thrown at them. I do realise this gives public school parents the shivers.

I went to a state school.

I worked my arse off.

I got offered a place at Durham. We had an intake day and I was one of the few state pupils there.

I got AAAC (chose to do an extra A level to hedge by bets)

My offer was ABB.

My offer page from Durham went down on results day. They rejected me, then the offer page got put back up with a line added at the bottom saying ‘B in X subject.’ The one I got a C in. It wasn’t an A level subject key to my degree either.

What they did was dishonest as it had made me look like I hadn’t achieved my offer which I had done, they’d changed the ‘offer’ on results day. 😒 I was heartbroken.

I have a feeling they offered too many places, anf based on the place and I’d bet my place went to a private school kid over me because that’s the type they clearly wanted.

It should be 100% based on merit not what school you’ve been to although I do think kids from underprivileged backgrounds should get some extra weight (I wasn’t underprivileged)

But exam results already favour public school kids.

im not a public school parent incidentally incase you thought I was 😁

This

That’s awful, did you argue it?

So because many things in the world are unfair we should stop making any effort to make them fair and just give up? What kind of an argument is that?

The blind lottery idea is pretty silly. Cambridge (and Oxford) aren't just looking for people who can meet the minimum requirement, they are looking for students who have the capacity for original thought and the ability to talk about their thoughts well. People who don't have that capacity and ability won't benefit from the tutorial system in the same way. This is why they, unlike almost all other UK universities, hold interviews for those who they believe may be able to offer what they are looking for.

If Oxford and Cambridge want to dumb down the quality of their offering, a blind lottery would be a really good way to do it.

I'd like to go back to the system in the 80s and before when lots of universities interviewed candidates. It really is a much better way of spotting potential than 'can you get three A stars'. But I guess the numbers are too high now, though I can't see why they can't use Zoom etc to help with this.

As for the idea of limiting private school applicants to 10%, that is a non-starter. There is a reason why there are a few elite schools that send a lot of people to Oxbridge. Well, there are a few reasons, but the main one is that these schools are highly selective. Exactly like Oxbridge is. If private school applicants were limited to 10%, it would not affect these schools at all - just the ordinary private schools which serve a much wider ability range (and a wider socio-economic range).

@Gardendiary

It means that directly or indirectly private schools are academically selective. A point that has also escaped the authors of the polemic that suggests a reduction in their numbers, and evidently Cambridge University.

That's awful and must be very hard to accept.

I wouldn't assume your place was given to a private school pupil. More likely a foreign pupil to get more cash in!

Also there now is weighting for various headings re underprivileged applicants. Kids on school meals, having learning difficulties, bereavement etc

They’re dropping the state school target

Cambridge University to scrap state school targets https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-68545303

@whiteroseredrose

That is not my experience from talking to state educated students in my children's year at Oxford. Tutorial groups are tiny it only takes one bumptious individual to make a big impression.

If you think your child will be more likely to get into Cambridge from a state school, save yourself a ton of money and send them to one.

Every time this subject comes up, that should be the answer. And no, you don't wait until sixth form. Universities aren't stupid. They ask for the secondary education history. Putting Slough sixth form college isn't going to hide the fact that the previous five years were spent at Eton.

'The latest Cambridge stats:
Layout 1 (cam.ac.uk)
Page 5: Out of all offers 23.5% went to overseas students, 54.8% to state and only 19.3% to private.
At six form 17% of all students are in private. So 17% vs 19.3% are pretty much spot on.

OP, I'm very much with you (and would appreciate if you linked this stat). It shows that quality of PS students is somewhat higher. Usual motive about spoon fed PS kids is really a slogan which people like to believe but is simply not true.'

The trouble with this is that many pupils who benefitted from a whole school career of private education go state for 6th form cf Hills Road
Therefore the 6.5% figure of U.K. pupils who have ever been privately educated is the correct comparator.

Oxbridge 'over-recruits from eight schools' www.bbc.com/news/education-46470838

Hills Road is one of only two state schools in these top 8 and quite frankly Hills is a state school in name only.

So honestly private school parents you still have nothing at all to worry about.

This is classic fragility, OP. The privilege you have taken for granted is being eroded a little, and you don't like it. Men feel the same way about equal pay and women's football. You're just going to have to suck it up. You certainly can't expect the 93%of parents who don't pay for education to sympathise.

@SonicTheHodgeheg

That is the story. However, in practice Cambridge University has expended a great deal of effort increasing the intake of students they know will do less well academically - based on a crude private-state metric which they value more highly than "talent".

"Classic fragility". Interesting turn of phrase. What do you mean?

@ForDaringNavyOP
"That is a completely unlevel playing field and I’m sure there is a different in performance when first starting at Cambridge, which probably even outs by the end of the degree."

It doesn't - that is the point.

And the university knows it.

I believe this was the article referred to earier in the thread.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/sep/12/radical-action-more-state-school-pupils-oxbridge-oxford-cambridge

Very silly in my opinion. But they’ve garnered attention with it. And of course the Guardian published it.

@Neveragain35

The stronger candidates are rejected, if that is not discrimintion what would you call it?

If you did it as a "blind lottery" the percentage of private school children would be far far higher than it is now.

@Usernameisnotavailabletryagain

I agree, particularly for northern comprehensive schools, not least because there are few grammar schools.

And how would you suggest we do that when we teach 45/50 hours a week? Have significantly higher numbers of students in our classes compared to private schools. Very few of us went ourselves. Perhaps you’d like to be a UCAS mentor on top of those 45 hours plus planning and prep-state schools would love the help-sign up!

@CormorantStrikesBack

Cambridge academics did a multivariate analysis which showed school type was a highly significant factor in the underperformance of state educated students.

@MiriamMay

What does oppression feel like in those circumstances?

if they've got the same grades without the extra help private schools give, they're gonna be smarter kids

Again, this is common slogan and so incorrect.

You have A-level student A with CATs 125 and student B with CATs 141.
A got 235 out of 300 in A-level Further Math and got A*
B got 295 out of 300 and got A*

Both got A*, results are equal.
Who's brighter?

Now, A is state kid, B is private.
A gets uni offer, B doesn't.

B goes to Ivy League.

Or, they go to the lower level UK uni and then there is an interesting twist - most desirable businesses run graduate programs. Their HR also sometime believe that state kids are let down by state schools, don't get a chance to go to the top unis and need a leg up to compensate for disadvantage. So they run uni blind assessment centres. So who gets the place there? Right. I personally know quite a few cases were results were a bit... surprising and PS kids got most of the places.

Before everyone piles on - it absolutely might be the case that A student is private and B is state. Of course. All I'm trying to say is that it's very wrong to assume that PS kid is always inferior to the state one.