Cambridge University discriminates against children from private schools.

[Marchesman]

MN threads persist in claiming that Oxford and Cambridge Universities do not discriminate against private schools. Now two "academics" have written a half-baked book that argues for further reductions in the number of Oxbridge students from private schools (to 10% of the intake).

In 2023 at Cambridge 19.9% of students from comprehensive schools obtained first class degrees (23.5% from grammar schools) compared with 28.6% from private schools - evidence of unequivocal discrimination against the latter at the point of entry.

Cambridge's own analysis shows that British state-educated students already significantly underperform relative to foreign and privately educated British students. If more of the latter are excluded, the inevitable outcome will be that at these universities the best students are foreign, while the best British pupils decamp to US universities.

Is this really what the Left wants? If so why?

What?

You'll have to explain that better because the statistic you've quoted doesn't seem to back up the point you are trying to make.

@KombuchaHauntsYourBurps

In what way does it not?

In 2023 at Cambridge 19.9% of students from comprehensive schools obtained first class degrees (23.5% from grammar schools) compared with 28.6% from private schools - evidence of unequivocal discrimination against the latter at the point of entry

I don’t think that proves what you think it does? What’s the saying - correlation does not equal causation? Maybe the professors are biased when they mark the private school kids work and give them higher grades because maybe they sound a bit nicer so are assumed to be more intelligent? Maybe the private school kids find independent learning at university easier to adapt to so achieve better? Would need looking into in more detail about the reasons for the slight difference. It may be that it’s not statistically significant. 🤷‍♀️

You say private school pupils are being discriminated against.

But the statistic says that they have a higher chance of getting a first class degree than state school pupils.

So...which bit is the discrimination?

Only 7% of UK children are privately educated so why shouldn't the % admitted to Cambridge reflect that? 10% is still over-representation after all. What's the % right now (presumably more than 10%)?

So, more privately educated students are getting Firsts and this means they are being discriminated against?

Do you think that privately educated students are more intelligent than state educated students @Marchesman?

I can't say I'm bothered about it anyway.

That’s the impression I got.

And for how long were state school pupils discriminated against ?

Other universities are available.

Entirely agree - and I say this as someone who was state educated and will probably have to state educate my children. This is not the way to level up - more focus on gifted and talented students is required in the state sector, rather than filling quotas. It will devalue British higher education and the value of the qualifications.

To second poster - the statistic shows that those who went to a private school are more likely to get a first in their degree. I imagine this is as a result of better education at school prior to commencing the degree and probably as a result of the higher grades that people in private school need to get onto university courses nowadays compared with those who are state educated.

Discrimination at the point of entry.

Students from private schools are 43% more likely to achieve firsts.

University data shows that school type is an independent variable.

Any other questions?

All that suggests to me is that privilege lingers.

I remember hearing an article on the radio about a woman from a rough comprehensive school who had massive support from her teachers to get to Oxford. Cue happy ever after - but it wasn't. She just didn't have the same cultural capital that her peers had. The lecturer making jokes in Latin that she had never learned. Extra books and theatre experiences that she hadn't had growing up. She felt behind and an alien.

Absolutely nothing to do with her intelligence or ability, just lacking all the extra leg-ups that her more privileged classmates took for granted and continued to have.

@Hellomynameis123

Just so.

Thank you.

Quite.

So? I don’t get your point. Doesn’t this just prove that buying an education continues to advantage pupils even after they have left school and are at university level.

This 💯

Have just spoken to my daughter who is final year Oxford.

Her take is that there is a certain arrogance about the private school students who tend to hog the tutorials and speak over the other student. So their needs are addressed to a greater extent than others.

That may be the reason?

Now two "academics" have written a half-baked book that argues for further reductions in the number of Oxbridge students from private schools (to 10% of the intake).

10% doesnt even make sense
Approx 20% of A-level students are in privately educated ...

And if they dont discriminate you have to ask why a lot of the niace MC families in north london are either going statefor secondary or switching to state for 6th form....

I agree with @Hellomynameis123 Penalising Private isnt going to level them up...

Cambridge's own analysis shows that British state-educated students already significantly underperform relative to foreign and privately educated British students. If more of the latter are excluded,

The latter (privately educated British students) aren’t been excluded. Cambridge have made an effort to try and find the talent located in the state sector which isn’t the same thing as excluding private school students. Anybody can apply- they need to be predicted the grades and pass the necessary interviews and supplementary entrance exams.

I have taught in both private schools and inner city state schools. Some of the pupils from private school are very high calibre, many are heavily coached with their application and interview, as well as receiving 1:3 teaching ratios is some subjects and tactically choosing subjects state school pupils would not have had the opportunity to learn or even been aware of. Also, private schools have many, many oxbridge graduates, with knowledge and connections of how to maximise chances of getting in, I’ve met less than a handful of oxbridge graduates in state schools, so there is no one to help prep them. That is a completely unlevel playing field and I’m sure there is a different in performance when first starting at Cambridge, which probably even outs by the end of the degree.

Basically, you have to stand out as amazing, and have a large element of luck, to get into oxbridge whichever type of school you attend and you can’t compare state and private school pupils as like for like, even based on academic performance.

The pupils who I have taught in state schools who have got into oxbridge have been incredibly self motivated, for example, not being able to take certain a levels due to lack of numbers and doing it themselves or with a council provided online tutor. If they get an A* in that compared with someone who’s been in a tiny A-Level class with a well qualified teacher, they are in my opinion, the more worthy candidate.

But how will Oxbridge cope without all those fine minds that will have no choice but to go to Harvard instead?!?!?

It will surely implode with all the oikism.

A quick google suggests about 30% of Oxbridge students come from private schools, while only 7% of children in the country actually go to private schools. So they are clearly not discriminated against!

I had an interview at Cambridge Uni many years ago and I didn’t think it was all that. I took my state-educated 4 grade As and had a whale of a time somewhere else!

Failed to get in, did you?

Plenty of Oxbridge rejects do perfectly fine, even ones that paid ££££ for a posh school.