Cambridge University discriminates against children from private schools.

[Marchesman]

MN threads persist in claiming that Oxford and Cambridge Universities do not discriminate against private schools. Now two "academics" have written a half-baked book that argues for further reductions in the number of Oxbridge students from private schools (to 10% of the intake).

In 2023 at Cambridge 19.9% of students from comprehensive schools obtained first class degrees (23.5% from grammar schools) compared with 28.6% from private schools - evidence of unequivocal discrimination against the latter at the point of entry.

Cambridge's own analysis shows that British state-educated students already significantly underperform relative to foreign and privately educated British students. If more of the latter are excluded, the inevitable outcome will be that at these universities the best students are foreign, while the best British pupils decamp to US universities.

Is this really what the Left wants? If so why?

I imagine privately educated students are less likely to need to budget incredibly carefully or work around studying.

If people are worried about privately educated children being discriminated against by Oxbridge they can always send their children to a state school instead.

I'm sure Cambridge admissions are clever enough to see through any coaching or private school superficial polish that people refer to above. That's their job, theyve been doing it long enough and they need to retain standards. As Cambridge is still one of the top universities world wide presumably they are chosing the best people.

Educational privilege lingers …

What about the kids at private secondary on bursary … they get into Oxbridge and are considered “private school” despite having been state educated until 6th form? I know of 4 of these kids … all at Oxbridge thru a Private Seconday for 6th form on bursary. There is no area on UCAS to reflect this.
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My area of UK doesn’t have “comprehensive” schools. So, this entire chunk of a county is not represented in this “analysis”

That’s not true about the school references I can assure you from I’ve seen. It’s often what isn’t said helps you form an opinion of a particular application. Also why then has UCAS decided to abandon personal statements if they’re better than school references?

Cambridge have been doing that for years. Lower offers to some state school candidates goes back to at least 2010.

They’ve still had the benefits of a better education, smaller classes etc

@Marchesman where is your data from? Every piece of research I've read has shown that state school kids outperform private school kids at uni.

They haven't had the advantage of private education so it makes sense they'd be naturally cleverer if they get the same A levels but with less help.

Where's your research from? Here's one article that says the opposite https://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/nov/05/top-state-school-pupils-get-better-degrees-than-those-from-private-schools

I wouldn't worry about them, even with the same degree they'll do better.

https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/graduates-who-went-to-private-schools-earn-more-than-graduates-who-did-not-finds-study

@JumpinJellyfish

Private schools are selective (academically, or socoieconomically) students from them will academically outperform pupils from nonselective schools, as will students from grammar schools. There are many personal factors involved, of which intelligence is one.

Is this really what the Left wants? If so why?

I am a left and so feel qualified to answer this....no, this isn't what I want, I would like to see the end of private schools. I think that would level the playing field more successfully and then no one needs to be 'discriminated against at point of entry '

@ForDaringNavyOP nails it.

A state school candidate who has fought their way in with no coaching, no connections and not much social capital, deserves all the recognition they can get.

And where is the more modern research which suggests a sea change in the opposite direction?

💯

@Marchesman here's another piece of research, coincidentally from Cambridge Uni, which shows state school pupils outperform private school pupils at university https://www.cambridgeassessment.org.uk/news/state-school-pupils-do-better-at-university-cambridge-assessment-research-confirms/

I've never seen evidence that private school pupils do better - it all says the opposite.

I'm actually quite curious if you do have research that says it, or you're just making up your own research

@Babbadoobabbadock

A very good question. Not when Parks looked at this for the years 2005 - 2010. Around 2013 - 14 if I remember correctly.

Cry me a river

Yes, 93% of the population of the UK are scum and thick as mince, is that what you mean op?

When you say "level the playing field" do you mean in an upwards or downwards direction? I never understand what the aim is.

Mumsnet is so strange. In these sorts of threads people say (sometimes the same people in the same thread) both:

1. That private school buys privilege. It is so much better than state schools in educating kids that state schools need positive discrimination in uni applications for their kids to get in;

and yet also at the same time:

1. State schools are great and children should all be educated in the comprehensive system (according to Angela Rayner) as that's the best system in the world for all kids and how offensive it is to suggest that private schools are better.

It's odd.

Marvellous love this response seriously!! 👏🏻

“Cambridge's own analysis shows that British state-educated students already significantly underperform relative to foreign and privately educated British students”

One stream of logic would suggest that if this is the case one would want the underperforming students as they still have unmet potential compared to those privately educated who have assuredly been given the opportunities to exploit the benefits of not having gone through the state education system..?

I would find it exceptionally hard to believe that private vs state school was variable independent of other factors like household income, use of emergency loans and hardship funds, size of parental home, parental attitude to learning, parental financial support during studies, student financial pressure during studies, place student can go back to during the holidays, I could go on...

Your evidence does not unequivocally support your supposition and if it helps convince you, I studied physics at Cambridge so not totally statistically illiterate.

The desperate whining of private school parents at the slightest whiff of removing existing privileges is music to my ears.

If you think your child will be more likely to get into Cambridge from a state school, save yourself a ton of money and send them to one.

How would you find out who the ones with unmet potential are? Who decides?

@MsCactus

Smith and Naylor showed what you claim years ago, Crawford was a blunt instrument and conflated firsts/upper seconds. Cambridge exam results are available and show a divergence in results around 2013.

The relevant research on school type is: Ekaterina Samoylova and Laura Hall Analysis of student characteristics and attainment outcomes at the University of Cambridge, Academic and Financial Planning and Analysis, April 2020.

The 2023 figures are from an FOI.