Cambridge University discriminates against children from private schools.

[Marchesman]

MN threads persist in claiming that Oxford and Cambridge Universities do not discriminate against private schools. Now two "academics" have written a half-baked book that argues for further reductions in the number of Oxbridge students from private schools (to 10% of the intake).

In 2023 at Cambridge 19.9% of students from comprehensive schools obtained first class degrees (23.5% from grammar schools) compared with 28.6% from private schools - evidence of unequivocal discrimination against the latter at the point of entry.

Cambridge's own analysis shows that British state-educated students already significantly underperform relative to foreign and privately educated British students. If more of the latter are excluded, the inevitable outcome will be that at these universities the best students are foreign, while the best British pupils decamp to US universities.

Is this really what the Left wants? If so why?

So what you are saying is that you can't be bothered to read the discussion? Please check your bias on the way out.

:Why are state school parents that want their child to go to a decent university “social climbers” but parents that send their children to private school - are they not “social climbers” then? And “peasants”?! Really? What an unpleasant thread. Fortunately my dds private school friends and their parents are friendly and inclusive and nothing like these posters.”

@TheaBrandt - it is not about “decent university” per se. Plenty of state school parents want their kids to go to a “naice” university and we all know what that means. Privileged comp, grammar and private school kids, many Russell group unis tick the box.
Let’s stop pretending this is all about “private school”.

But wait a minute - according to all the PS users on MN networking at school and uni doesn’t exist for privately educated students, but now state school students want to piggyback on this non-existent network?

BTW, having seen the very worst of PS university ‘networking’ in full glorious Technicolor, I think you’re very much mistaken if you think that it’s something that anyone would aspire to.

Getting back to the initial topic…I wonder if the covid chaos and grade inflation made it harder fir Cambridge to figure out who the best applicants really were. With the distortion of A level marking, they relied more on the interviews. Maybe the academics are kidding themselves about how well they can spot talent. Maybe all the interviews fo is introduce bias.
Maybe attainment of firsts will revert back to the mean as this bulge group work their way through.

@SabrinaThwaite - kids at school are too young to network. By uni, let’s say they are doing law, medicine or engineering they are starting to form their own professional networks, especially at the better unis. They continue this after uni into professional life. So if they are with a whole lot of other successful young driven people (without a gigantic CHIP on their shoulder), it helps.

In fact, why do we not take a close look at pretty much all of our politicians who happen to have met at Oxford doing PPE! Whatever their colour or politics.

By colour I meant red or blue or even green it seems

We are constantly told that PS is nothing to do with networking. And if you think kids at school are too young to network, then the same goes for university - it’s their parents networks or old school networks that they’re using (being students who have no actual work / life experience).

BTW, plenty of state schooled students have parents in the professions. Engineering, for instance, your networking prospects are best improved by being a student member of the relevant professional body and getting involved in activities and CPD.

‘Better unis’ - yep, been there, done that.

No CHIPS necessary.

Re networking:

• X works in a store stocking shelves. Their niece, friend's child, whatever relationship, let's call them Z, is looking for a job. X speaks with store manager, Z is interviewed and gets a job in this store. No matter how good is relationship between X and store manager, the manager won't offer the job to a poor quality candidate, this would jeopardise their own job.

• Y works in investment bank. Their niece, friend's child, whatever relationship, let's call them Z, is looking for a graduate job. Investment bank runs graduate program. Y offers Z's CV to HR. CV reviewed, Z goes through assessment centre, Z gets the job in investment bank. No matter how good is relationship between Y and recruiting manager, the manager won't offer the job to poor quality candidate, this would jeopardise their own job.

Never seen first example? Let me reassure you it happens all the time. More than this, it's called referral bonus - many businesses reward employees with a bonus (sometime quite substantial) if they refer someone who is eventually offered a job, accepts and passes probation term.

What's the difference between these two examples?

If your long winded ramble is an attempt to deny the existence of PS networks, then your question should be directed to @Araminta1003 who thinks that state school students want to piggyback on PS networks.

Students from private schools were more likely than students from comprehensive schools to be awarded firsts by the following multiples from 2017 to 2023: 1.24 ,1.17, 1.19, 1.17, 1.23, 1.43, and 1.44.

I thought just eyeballing the gross numbers that I was looking at a trend, but it is quite possible that you are right. In that case my figure of 1.44 is misleading, and the figure may settle to a mean of 1.2. Less dramatic but still too high (especially compared with the historic figures that lie behind all of this).

If that is so, I wonder what exactly caused the excessive recruitment of applicants from comprehensive schools to increase even further at that time?

I thought you were being ironic earlier. I take it now that you are not?

@SabrinaThwaite

Thank you for your understanding and polite assessment of my post.

I'm not denying existence of networks - humans exist within networks and form these networks according to their interests. So called PS networks don't exclude state educated people, they exclude those who don't share their interests. Exactly the same as any other social networks.

I do slightly resent being called a “pleb” and a “peasant”?! I have certainly never been into a Wetherspoons pub and am a solicitor.

Do you really need to ask? Stacking shelves in a supermarket is a job open to everyone, and easy to get. There are people with mild meaning difficulties doing it, and my own daughter's both worked at Tesco in their sitting 6th form and their holidays from uni. You don't need contacts to work there

Working for an investment Bank is much sought after and open only to a small minority. But if you don't have contacts, your odds of working there are very much reduced.

Friend was very open about why he had sent his children to an excellent private school. And the connections and the introductions were very much part of it. His kids got internships at prestigious places (one a City Law Chambers) without even trying. They'd been scoped via school introductions and events in 6th form.

My kids got better A level results and degrees, but had none of those advantages.

Comparing a heads up for a job on the tills at Tesco, with the above, is ridiculous.

You are really delusional if you sincerely believe that contacts can give you a job in a corporate business if you aren't good enough. Contacts certainly can give you recommendations and ensure HR reads your CV, but you still need to pass all assessments. Cannot comment about small private businesses, don't have experience in this area.

What I'm trying to say is that we all live in networks and those within network tend to support each other. My DC were in private (moving to grammar now), I'm friend with professional parents whose kids are both in state and in private. They will offer work experience to my DC when time comes and I'll offer theirs. It's network, it's not exclusive to private.

Edited to add - I'm in a relatively senior role and I join panel interviews for roles in other teams and recruit for mine, incl grads. I will never ever give a job to a child of my best friend if they aren't the best candidate.

Oxbridge students go to Wetherspoons at an unceasing rate.

@saraclara
Odds of working in investment bank are open only to a small minority because these jobs require very unique skills, both intelligence and resilience wise. IBs pool from a very selective list of unis but they do join career days. Did your kids apply? did they go through a brutal multiple stages assessment process?

Are you sure another kid got internship without even trying? didn't do interview? just got an offer? Internship isn't a job still

There is research on the matter, that I pointed out earlier. It is an interesting read but difficult to find as open access.

"When conditioning on a range of background characteristics and potential mechanisms for access to top occupations, networks are orthogonal to socio-economic status; the use of networks is not the main driver of these large gaps in accessing the top jobs by family background."

"Who gets the Top Jobs? The role of family background and networks in recent graduates’ access to high status professions" Macmillan, Tyler, and Vignoles 2013.

Wetherspoons is known for repurposing interesting historic buildings that otherwise fall into disrepair.

I’m just happy that us peasants can get to appreciate such things. I even have a forelock to I can tug in deference to Sir Tim.

My 18 year old and her pals love Wetherspoons because it’s super cheap. They are state school pupils but are very bright and going to great universities not sure
if that makes them plebs peasants or social
climbers I’ve rather lost track.

You have an extremely odd binary view
of the world. Not one I recognise.