Cambridge University discriminates against children from private schools.

[Marchesman]

MN threads persist in claiming that Oxford and Cambridge Universities do not discriminate against private schools. Now two "academics" have written a half-baked book that argues for further reductions in the number of Oxbridge students from private schools (to 10% of the intake).

In 2023 at Cambridge 19.9% of students from comprehensive schools obtained first class degrees (23.5% from grammar schools) compared with 28.6% from private schools - evidence of unequivocal discrimination against the latter at the point of entry.

Cambridge's own analysis shows that British state-educated students already significantly underperform relative to foreign and privately educated British students. If more of the latter are excluded, the inevitable outcome will be that at these universities the best students are foreign, while the best British pupils decamp to US universities.

Is this really what the Left wants? If so why?

@Leah5678 you sound a little unhinged. Are you posting in good faith?

Yes sorry can get a little heated on this topic because of how bad the bullying was

From LSE website:
Around 70% of LSE's students are from outside the UK.
St Andrew’s - 40% (The Scot)

Perhaps they are the people making these Unis best? I’m sure they are all state school pupils … or peasants.

I think this articulates the situation rather well, and it is somewhat reassuring to think of it in those terms. At least when people like Leah5678 pop up, it is easier to make sense of their position.

Hypocrisy is a defining feature of left-wing politics, and it never works out for the left when they attempt stunts like this. It hasn't worked out for state schools - the most socially selective state schools are "comprehensive" schools, not grammar schools; and the near abolition of grammar schools has been associated (causally or casually) with a threefold decline in educational mobility.

My children were privately educated from three, went to one of the Clarendon Commission's nine schools with academic scholarships, Oxford (one as a scholar) and then into the higher reaches of traditional (non-medical) professions, where they have garnered accolades.

They could have been educated at the state's expense at a local comprehensive school (then ranked in the top 50 for Oxbridge entry by the Sutton Trust) or at a nearby grammar school (then sending as many children to Oxford and Cambridge as the private school they went to).

Faced with that choice in the current climate, would we do the same again? Absolutely, because at age 18 human beings are largely fully formed. By then if they have been well educated they are usually capable of dealing with setbacks. As far as Oxbridge and future employment is concerned, it won't take employers long to develop alternative metrics.

Given that Oxbridge are systematically rejecting the best (and in the same way that an A grade can never be considered to be equal to an A star) a privately educated job applicant with a first from Bristol, Edinburgh, etc. logically must now be considered, ceteris paribus, a better candidate than a state educated applicant with a second from Oxford or Cambridge.

With universities discriminating according to school type, employers will in time also learn to - and in the right way.

Could you please share your basis for " I’m sure they are all state school pupils"

The below is well known fact:

St Andrews University among highest number of privately-educated students (fifetoday.co.uk)

How interesting. Thank you.

Although rankings that are heavily weighted by student satisfaction have an inbuilt flaw.

Based 100% in sarcasm in reaction to comments above.

The problem for Cambridge uni is that it might turn out like China’s one child policy. It hasn’t proven simple to convince people to now have 3 kids again.

For example, if it was virtually impossible for a private school student to get a place on a law degree at Cambridge, at some point the top PS ones just stop applying. Imagine if they end up having to do outreach to private schools eventually? That would be hilarious.

Personally, I am quite relaxed because I always found the concept of having just 2 elite unis too much. It is better for all if there is a great solid range, it just offers potential students far more choice and less heartache as well.

The other point, of course, is that there are plenty of social climbers amongst state school parents who absolutely do want their kids to go to unis full of private school kids to mix with them and network and gain a broader experience. You may not be able to afford fees for private school, but unis all cost the same anyway, so it is not something that will put all state school parents off. For every state school parent who despises the concept of private schools, there will be others who admire it. In reality, most people tried to climb up a rung, it is only on MN that this is denied.

The opportunity for more élite universities is indeed very much the upside of Oxbridge over-recruitment from state schools. However, Oxbridge remain by far the richest universities and students in many subjects (not all) just get much more for their money than elsewhere.

Why are state school parents that want their child to go to a decent university “social climbers” but parents that send their children to private school - are they not “social climbers” then? And “peasants”?! Really? What an unpleasant thread. Fortunately my dds private school friends and their parents are friendly and inclusive and nothing like these posters.

I was also called posh at school. And?

Were you beaten up so badly you had to have your nose realigned? Did you miss the bit where I said I was hospitalised

You prompted me to check other rankings, which I hadn't looked at for a few years. For the first time (in the last five years, and I assume before that) ICL is ahead of Oxford and Cambridge this year in the QS World University Rankings, which I don't suppose they will be thrilled about either.

https://www.topuniversities.com/world-university-rankings

THE ranking isn't available yet but ICL has been catching up there. Perhaps this is the end of Oxbridge's hegemony.

https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/2024/world-ranking

My dad was a high profile teacher AT the school. That was fun! It’s not rational to tar whole groups of people because you have had a bad experience with one member of that group. That’s quite a dangerous road to go down.

My parents were of a similar mindset as you and made me suffer through school surrounded by peasants and general troglodytes.

I will not make the same mistake with my own children. Private from age 4-18. And I jolly well wish student loans would stop being a thing so they didn't have to come across such individuals in their uni years.

I value my peace ✌🏻

School can be pretty horrid - not all state schools are Grange Hill though

My dds have been happy at their all girls state. It’s not perfect but it’s decent

@Marchesman

“With universities discriminating according to school type, employers will in time also learn to - and in the right way.”

So what you are saying is that the right way to discriminate is against people who go to state school? Please check your privilege on the way out.

They nearly always are, the only way to guarantee they won't be is to pay and go private.

Choose carefully which school your children go to as aside from the bullying aspect even if your children manage to get on peer pressure is VERY real.
Parents with a higher income got there through intelligence and hard work and they raise their children to be the same whereas in a state school let's just say your exposing your kids to the lowest of the low.

I'm not sure if the above posted is really traumatised so badly or they pretend to be a PS parent to steer up, but their views are
shall we say "unconventional"

The worst school in my area for bullying is the most expensive day private school. If you are not very rich, very sporty or very academic you really do not want to be there.

A boy two years ahead of me in my state school was bullied until he hanged himself. The problem with anecdotes is that everyone has one.

If you do the research you will find that pastoral care is much worse in state schools.

@Marchesman but why does the fact privately educated children have had better pastoral care mean they should be prioritised for university places?