can anyone explain?

[MathsMadMummy]

hello, just wondering how the whole reading levels thing works when kids learn to read at school. I've seen a lot of threads about kids not being given the right level books, not being allowed to go up a level, the books being so boring... seems like a bit of a minefield!

no personal experience - DD only just 3 so it'd be good to know. when I started school (1981) I was reading so I just read what I wanted (teacher gave me her own DD's books!) - no idea what others were doing. do kids who are already reading get that freedom nowadays? I've heard of parents getting told off for teaching their kids to read! not that my DD is anywhere near reading, and she's a summer baby so I don't expect she would be by then.

anyway would love somebody to explain, so I will vaguely know what to expect if she goes to reception.

dropping DD at nursery now, so will eagerly check for replies later. TIA

What you have to remember is that the people who post about reading levels on Mumsnet are the ones who take an interest in that sort of thing

It is possible to care about your dcs' education in general, but to still adopt an attitude of distant benevolence towards this particular aspect of it.

Schools have slightly different ways of dealing with reading levels; in dcs' school a child who had worked their way up and demonstrated that they could cope with books at the top ORT level the school used would then go on to become a free reader, so could pick own books out of school library (or bring them in).

I literally know nothing about how they teach reading in schools!

It varies a lot from school to school.

DS's school use books from lots of different reading schemes, and I think they have their own banding system for grouping them (DS's teacher made a comment once about moving him up a level, so I presume they do), but I'm not sure what it is. DS brings books home and reads them, then he gets a new book. He reads bits of them in school as well. Gradually the books have got more challenging. I think (from comments he's made) that he gets to choose his own book at least some of the time, presumably from a grouped selection.

The only thing DS's school specified on reading was for parents to sound out words without putting "-uh" on the end of all the sounds (so not "cuh-a-tuh" but a more precise "c-a-t") to help the children get the hang of blending.

Oh dear, threads like these fill me with fear. Why oh why is there this determination to formally teach reading at home? Will you also formally teach drawing? painting? cooking? sewing? skipping? hopping? French? Russian?
Your dd is 3 years old. Does she enjoy hearing stories? So read her stories; read her lots of them, lots of different ones, join the library, if you can then buy books, new books, secondhand books, encourage her to tell you the story of a picturebook, make sure you share the joys of the printed page together, happily and regularly. If you like reading she will learn that it is something that you enjoy and she too will enjoy - same with drawing and painting, cooking and sewing... I doubt that you will ever pin her down to the intricate detail of say, 'feather stitch' but I suspect that you may anguish over her inability to recognise diphthongs.
Leave the formal teaching to the experts, they know about blending phonemes, jolly phonics and all the techincalities of language - your role is to encourage the learning process, so that it does not matter whether the book is a 'green' or a 'red' band reader, but if it is a good read, a good story - if it is worth reading!
Don't spoil the fun of stories by making reading a hard task to be learned, make it a skill to be acquired with ease!

Hang on, the OP said she "would love somebody to explain, so I will vaguely know what to expect if she goes to reception." and specifically states that she doesn't expect her DD to be reading when she starts school.

Where in her post do you detect any determination to teach reading at home?

[Gently suggests that ElbowFan should re-read the OP emoticon]

it is not really a mine field

the reason that most of us get slightly obsessed with reading levels is that for much of the year they are the only concrete feedback we get about how our dc are getting on, and if there seems to be a mismatch between the books they are getting sent home with and our own views on their ability then we panic that the teacher doesn't really know what our child is capable of. It is not that reading books are important for their own sake. IMO DS1 has been on the 'wrong' reading level of most of this year, but with hindsight this really didn't matter. But on the other hand I find it very reassuring that he is now on the 'right' level. Not because reading books are important, but because I know that his teacher knows exactly where he is at.

BTW DS1 never actually reads his reading book at home as he finds them very dull

When DS started school they mainly used one reading scheme, but also had lots of other books. So, he gradually worked his way up through the levels of that scheme, sometimes going through a lot of books on one level, sometimes only a small selection of them before moving up again. Sometimes the books he brought home were from the scheme, and he could generally manage at least most of the words in them. Other times he would bring home what they called a "Shared reading book" ie an ordinary childrens book. The arrangement with those was that he could read none, some, or all of it, with the parent doing the rest. I think it was to give them a bit more variety, and a chance to read books because they looked like fun rather than containing the right collection of words!

At the same time, he was also doing phonics, so would sometimes have homework which was about a particular letter - colouring in all the things that start with "b", later underlining the words with an "oo" in them, etc.

Once he'd got to a certain point, the scheme books stopped and he moved onto more "real" books, and chapter books.

Schools do vary in how they approach it, but an experienced teacher will probably use a variety of different approches with the children, as they all "click" with reading in different ways.

maths I understand where you're coming from. I too learnt to read before school started and cannot remember a time when I couldn't read whatever I wanted. I spent most of my time in school wondering how on earth anyone ever learnt to read in school because the reading lessons I could see going on didn't seem like enough (and indeed reading standards were very poor overall I think, looking back). That's definitely coloured my view.

My DS1 will be starting Reception in September and can already read. This is because both his state and his private nursery identified him as being ready for reading and gave us reading books which DS1 raced through and then we got a lot of head scratching and "not sure what to do next" so I've ended up researching loads myself, as I'm determined not to leave him hanging after getting so far but also desperate not to mess it up.

teachers are not necessarily experts t teaching reading. it is imo definitely worth understnding the system a little so you can pick up if there is a problem

must nursery run now

I think it coloured my view too mrsg - I've always wondered how on earth a child can learn to read in a room with 30 or so others?! But I suppose most do.

elbow (I saw them live once, supporting Muse) - no, not planning to teach DD to read yet. I do actually have a lot of phonics stuff that I bought over the last few years, but as others reiterated I don't think she's ready so I won't be using them.

I'm interested in the massive range of what reception classes seem to teach - some seem to get stuck straight in but others such as my friend's (she's an NQT) are going very very slowly with the intention of not really starting until yr1.

Now the going really slowly thing would worry me TBH. If you drag the whole thing out too much, it sends the message that reading is either boring, unfathomably difficult or both. Better not to start at all than that.

That's kind of why I taught DS1 myself, because he'd been given the ORT level 0 (books without words that you make up the story to) and then a load of sight words to learn in various different configurations. That is no way to learn, really, (I do buy the "Phonics first, fast and exclusively" mantra) particularly since it is all being done piecemeal and slowly because it was only for the two boys in the class who were considered ready. So I read up as best I could and did it myself, and now that he's quite a way ahead, I need to be prepared to carry on doing it myself, though I actually have quite a lot of confidence in his Reception teacher that it will be better than that.

A lot (maybe a majority) of children will learn pretty much whatever method you use, but children who struggle need great care taken, so you need to pay attention in case your child is one who finds it difficult.

In my humble and partially-educated-on-the-subject opinion

In my son's school they use lots of different schemes, they have banded these books together in coloured levels. Some are ORT, some Ginn and some various phonics schemes.

He brings home a different book each day which he reads to us. We have been issued with a comments book to fill in each day.

He started to read ORT at home which he loves. However his teacher who has read with him 10 times! this year seems to use lots of different strategies, picture clues, textural clues, phonics etc, When I have stated that he has been sounding out the letter sounds to build the words she writes back how important picture clues are. If I write he used picture clues she writes back how essential contextural clues are!
I have now stopped commenting in the book!
He has brought several books home in excess of five times, he now reads them whilst he stares out the window. Remembered word for word. But what is the use if he isn't actually looking at the page.

I almost feel like insisting they keep their reading scheme books in school and I will continue to help him read at home, why? because I feel that if the teachers are the experts they should read with all children more regularly and assess them more acurately. Our Exp of reading and maths in reception has made me seriously consider HEd.

My advice would be to read lots to your daughter, teach her left to right and to follow the text as you read to her. Its never to early for basic reading skills and writing. With 30 to a class even the experts are struggling.

MathsMadMummy - right lets get this sorted.

Our DSs were at a very pressurised intensely selectve Prep. DS1 read every day to his TA and then to us every night. He learned to read quickly and far ahead of his actual age.

DS2 was moved to a new Prep in Yr1. They read much less with him and we ended up begging the, to send books home. He got one a week and fell behind, lost confidence and was a poor reader and is only now catching up as his new teacher is following the readng every day approach.

The bottom line to reading is to read often and every day. Not a huge wodge in one go then nothing for days but a little and often. Its not about how hard the book is to read either - any reading is good.

If you want your child to read, then get them to read every day. ORT and other schemes are all good. Girls are faster at learning to read than boys in general. Do not be afraid to get DD to read every day. Its about building accuracy and stamina and like any athlete that takes regular practice.

Primary school reading attainment levels are, in my view, low because children just do not read enough. There is no magic. The earlier thay read and the more they read the better they read.

The DSs first Prep firmly believed that reading attainment was the key to all other learning.

And where do you get your (mis)information regarding primary school reading attainments, BeenBeta?

My sister who used to work as a TA in London Primary schools and now is a teacher.

The statistics would say otherwise.

In 2009, 85% of year 6 children reached the expected level 4 or above in reading.

Of those, 47% reached level 5, which requires a fairly high standard of higher order reading skills such as inference, deduction, interpretation of writers' techniques to produce effects, etc.

7% attained level 3, requiring a certain standard of fluency - i.e. those children can definitely read, and are definitely not 'poor' readers.

7% attained level 2 or below. These children will have SEN, as we have inclusion in our schools. They are not working at a standard high enough to have to complete the Y6 tests.

In my own school, which is in a fairly deprived area, this year we have 77% level 5s readers, 16% level 4s and 7% level 1s. The two level 1 readers have a full statement and have made good progress throughout their time at primary school.

I have no idea why your sister thinks that reading attainment is poor in primary schools, since it clearly isn't true in the vast majority of schools in England. Thankfully, we have reliable statistics to hand and therefore don't have to rely on one dodgy opinion from someone's sister. Perhaps she should stop complaining and help to sort out the reading problem that evidently exists in her school? And then perhaps you could stop bandying about ridiculous generalisms that simply aren't true.

Good points about reading little and often, BeenBeta, but I would question the end of your statement: "The earlier they read and the more they read the better they read."

British children, who on average start reading earlier than most other European nations, do not actually read better as adults than anybody else: rates of semi-literacy are actually far higher in this country than in Northern Europe.

My dd only sussed reading at 6, whereas several of the other children in Reception had already learnt at 3. But by the time they got to Yr 6 she was reading far more advanced books than her friends.

My db really only took to reading after he started school at 7. I taught myself at 5 m(which was considered abnormally early in Sweden where we lived). As adults we are both very competent readers, but I'd say he is probably competent in some dozen more languages than I am

It saddens me that my own ds has lost all interest in reading and has got into the habit of thinking of himself as dim because he wasn't able to understand reading when he was 4. I learnt to read at 5 and was led to believe I was clever- so I kept on reading more and more and naturally got better and better at it.

Read yesterday that Rosemary Sutcliff only learnt to read at 9. But she was certainly an avid reader as an adult.

The point about reading little and often is a valid one as practice is vital for strengthening the neural networks and achieving mastery of any skill (I expect that Andy Murray and the England football team just don't practise enough)

But. Big BUT; your dc has to be practising the right thing! If they are practising applying their phonic knowledge and sounding out and blending then they will be fine (unless they have some severe underlying difficulty). If they are practising the dodgy 'look and guess' strategies as described by minimathsmouse then some could be well on the way to reading failure, with all its horrible consequences.

I'm afraid I was a 'leave it to the school' mummy when my dcs were young (and luckily, they both learned to read with no problems), but since I have worked with 'struggling' readers (age 11+) I think that parents would do well to keep an eye on how their children are being taught to read and be ready to leap in with 'counter measures' if they are not being consistently taught good, structured, systematic phonics in YR & Y1.

Beenbeta, my ds is at a state primary and right from reception they've been reading every day. Am surprised you believe this is not the case. Unless you are doing that defensive thing where you feel the need to justify going private by denigrating state schools?

maizeD - totally agree. Having had the experience of DS1 learning to read we thought mistakenly that all schools were like that. The Prep that DS2 learned at simply didnt do enough and we hung back far too long. It has taken two years and a whole different much more intensive approach with 2 new teachers to get him confident again.

All we ever did was read with him at home as instructed but we did need the teachers to bother to put a book in his bag and occasisonally apply some proper phonic training.

See, now you'd get that daily in any state school - it's statutory.

Feenie you are so fab! You are so right are on all these education threads. (I've name changed recently but we have agreed before).

Yes OP everything Feenie says it right. (I am Ht in a state school)

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