picking up accents at school

[Sallyssss]

Ok, now I am know this thread wont make me the most popular person, but I need some advice/reassurance (or a kick up the back side ;-) .

My 5 yr started a new local school in a new area (where we have moved to)and has already started picking up the accent, which to put it mildly I do not like!

Hmmm - do I accept this? Will she grow out of it? Any words of wisdom?

I still think there is a difference between an accent and not pronouncing words correctly. missing t's, poor grammar are unrelated to a regional accent.

I am amused that despite growing up in Fife with one fife parent and one from Stirlingshire I have some distinctive dundonian and aberdonian speech sounds, notably a dundee r sound.

the closest to dundee was my mums mum who we say a handful of times a year and the aberdeen bit was my mums grandparents.

even stranger is my kids have the same speech sounds and we are in the west of scotland.

I had a boss like that, Butterfly. She was Glaswegian but had been brought up all over the UK and abroad as her dad was RAF.

Worked with an academic who was also Glaswegian, but, being in his 60s, when his parents married and were a Catholic and a Protestant in the 1940s, people were throwing bricks through their windows and threatening them.

So they moved to Manchester when he was small.

He sounded Mancunian, though.

Expat, do you understand that there are degrees of locality? Town, county, province. I think it is accurate to describe an accent that can't be pinpointed as neutral. And when you come out with nonsense such as 'an educated or well-travelled person can place Irish accents' that is nonsense. Sometimes, in your haste to cut everybody else's bullshit down, you accidentally vomit out some off the cuff bullshit yourself. It's ok. But don't argue yourself deeper into a hole.

That is strange, Primrose. DD1 had a gorgeous, soft Edinburgh accent when we moved here to the West. But it was gone after two terms at nursery.

This accent, the lower West Highland, is quite nice, though.

DD2 was 1 when we moved here, so she never changed accents.

DS is nearly 20 months, and when he speaks, it sounds Scottish.

'Sometimes, in your haste to cut everybody else's bullshit down, you accidentally vomit out some off the cuff bullshit yourself. It's ok. But don't argue yourself deeper into a hole. '

Oh, please wind your neck in, Magal.

It's the internet, words on a screen.

I find trying to make someone sound 'neutral' foolish because it's pointless.

It's not an argument, it's an opinion.

So you don't agree.

I can't honestly say I'm all that bothered.

But carry on getting your knickers in a twist about it if that's what floats your boat.

You think you sound neutral, to the rest of the world, you still sound Irish.

BFD.

My neck is wound in expat, you're the one who comes out with the erroneous sweeping statements, and about another country too!

It's a neat disclaimer though, type your off the cuff bullshit and then when somebody counters, you say 'oh wind your neck in'.

And I'm not trying to make my children have neutral accents. I just think that it is likely that eventually they will end up losing some of the accent they pick up in the play ground. I don't take them to elocution lessons and I don't lose sleep over it. My son had such a severe speech delay that he didn't speak 'til he was 3 and 4 months, so believe me, I am not losing sleep over it. SOme people find accents an interesting subject.

TBE, there is a SoCoDu accent though and it would sound stupid in England. It would sound American. I picked this up when I was on the dort every day. I starded to tawlk like thiiiis. A bit like Lloyd Grossman I fear.

I lost it as soon as I stopped using the Dart.

it's inevitable they will pick the accent up from school. But school is new and if they still spend time with you, the accent will probably become a bit of a mixture.
Accents are only a problem to snobs.
Just make sure it doesn't affect their grammar and they will be fine.
I'm from Liverpool, H is a Kiwi, and we live in London... DS is getting a very strange accent!!! But as long as his grammar is good, I don't really care.
FWIW, my brother and I went to the same schools,and were brought up in the same household and his accent is much stronger than mine. Who knows?

Expat, yes, I sound Irish and I sound neutral. Is that really hard to understand?

See, I find the whole idea of neutralising someone's accent utter BS. So what? You find it BS, I don't. Couldn't care less. It's words on a screen. People make sweeping generalisations all day, every day. Again, so what? If I could got angry at the number of threads on here making sweeping generalisations about my native country, I'd be a ball of rage. Pointless.

Many people find accents interesting, hence the responses, mostly negative, to the OP in question.

If a person doesn't like the local/regional accent (a separate issue from grammar), then it's probably best to relocate rather than try to neutralise the child's accent because, as pointed out, it's not possible without probably damaging things for that child.

My child also has speech delays, is still having SALT at the age of 7, so, like you, that fact that she speaks at all without mumbling is enough for me, even though she is still having big problems with verb tenses and sequencings (she is dyspraxic, among other learning disabilities).

'Expat, yes, I sound Irish and I sound neutral. Is that really hard to understand?'

Magal, you sound neutral to you.

Other people on here claim they sound neutral, too, and still others have pointed out that, well, excepting a few, they don't.

Whatever!

If that's how you want to sound and you want to spend your time trying to make your kids sound like you, go then.

I cannot hear my own accent.

Everyone else can.

I lived in Colorado, people there swore up hill and down dale they had a neutral accent. But it was easy to pick out the natives from the people from other states.

I cannot hear that my father sounds like he did not speak English as a first language, as he did not. Everyone else can hear that about him, though.

My mother couldn't hear her mother's French accent, probably because she didn't speak much English with her mother, but everyone else could.

no expat, I sound neutral to other Irish people, but carry on arguing with me even though you haven't met me, heard me, polled any Irish people. You know best, as you always do.

I have already explained to you that there are degrees of locality. I don't mind if somebody knows I'm irish. That much is clear. But it is just a fact which you seem utterly determined to argue that it is not always possible to tell what county a person is from. And in Ireland at least, that is called 'neutral'.

I wouldn't try to tell you how Texans or Americans or Scottish people perceive their accents, either immediately local or beyond.

Op, I feel the same way about the south London accent and I am a south Londoner; I was just brought up to speak 'properly' and having said that, my Mum is a Yorkshire lass who has lived in London for 50 years and still speaks like a Yorkie and my Dad was from India! go figure! actually, Dad spoke beautifully and I guess I copied him and Mum reinforced good grammar and pronounciation. I was though, picked on dreadfully for being a 'snob' through my speach at secondary school and my brother went to the complete other end of the scale and talks like a right geezer from sauf Landon.
I'm always correcting my Ds(11.10yrs), but on the whole, he's come through primary still speaking well and when he does slip, I correct him especially as my 3.6yo Dd copies him.
It's a really hard thing to swallow when you don't like it. Just keep correcting her when she's with you; I'm sure she'll want to be like her Mummy anyway and when she is older and it's not a bad skill to be able to mix in with different types of people(I do this without even realising it most of the time)and adopt their speaking style.

*speech speech speech

Magal, I'm not arguing anything.

It's a difference of opinion that you find an argument.

And I couldn't care less if you voiced an opinion about other countries' accents including my own.

I'd not find it offensive or get all irate about it because, it's not a big deal, it's your opinion, I don't know you, you don't pay my rent, so therefore it's not worth getting all het up about.

But if that's what floats your boat and you feel you sound neutral then carry on.

I remember being 8 years old, moving from Oxford (UK) to Montreal for six months, and within 2 weeks of starting school I had the accent - but only when I was talking to my friends. My parents teased me when they overheard me, but I think my Dad, a natural linguist, was rather proud

Sally, dd is at a South London primary, and lots of the kids (including dd) drop Ts, say putted, etc but if dd is anything to go by it takes about two days of school holidays for her grammar to get back to however it was (not perfect) at the start of term. I don't care two hoots about accent, personally, but grammar is a tad more worrisome in terms of writing - but honestly, they adapt superfast and you can correct them at home (imagine the teachers will too, in written English, later on).

As for accents, I wish she'd pick up a Geordie accent from somewhere, but not much chance of that around here...

expat, it's not a matter of opinion though. Some accents are harder to place. You are really struggling to grasp that.

you know, whatever you want to think, megal, just go ahead and think it if it just gets you off my back, fgs.

you think neutralising makes you harder to place.

i don't, several others don't. some people have an ear for accents and can pick out people even when they've attempted to neutralise it or even disguise it. still others are good enough to carry it off but they are few and far between without elocution lessons.

therefore, it's a difference of opinion to me but if you want to assume it's because i don't get it or am thick or whatever go right ahead!

[practices says, 'just leave it!' in another accent]

I'm not 'on your back'. Do you expect to be able to spout erroneous sweeping statements and confuse your own opinion with fact and for that to go unchallenged. This is Mumsnet! And I don't think you'd fit in on Netmums.

You're still at it fgs! You think you can place every single person?! Even from a country that is not your own?!?! Wow, it's amazing that you believe you can do that!

People who study linguistics can hardly manage that!!

Why would you not want people to know where you come from

It's not a secret. I would tell anybody instantly. That's a separate issue.

There are people who can hear really subtle sounds from accents and who claim to be able to pin point where that person grew up to within five miles. But that's a skill. And it's a fairly localised skill obviously. A Canadian Linguist couldn't do it in Australia. It's an interesting subject and if you're interested in it 'Miss Smilla's Feeling for Snow' would be a great book to read.

I love accents, i really do. I think you should concentraet on getting her able to adapt how shr speaks to various circumstances - i.e. has good manners and knows how to speak politely and when and where. No prob with slang so long as not used in an interview etc etc