Private school reception children - what are yours doing?

[wheelsonthebus]

My dc is in a (middling to v average) state school and I am keen to know whether there is a significant difference at this stage in reading, writing and numeracy between the school and a more academic/private school which I would like to aspire to at 7+. What are yours doing now and what more could I be doing at home?

My DB worked as a class teacher in an independent school and taught GCSE physics before he had even started his teacher training course.They didn't care he wasn't a qualified teacher they just wanted someone cheap!!

The usual private school thing it that children are working 2 years ahead of state school children by the age of 7.

Don't believe the spin! (or just look at averages).

My year 1 (just) 6 year old is a free reader and I believe would be achieving level 4 in enlish, level 3 in maths. So, she is working a few years ahead of 'average'.

(In her Ofsted only just 'satisfactory' state school with lots of very deprived children).

Most deprived in the local authority!

At least you acknowledge your sweeping generalisations, smee, so I'll try to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are intelligent enough to know that stereotyping private and state teachers in the way you do is both offensive and incredibly narrow-minded.

I teach in a private school and my DS attends one. Those are the choices I have made and they are the right ones for my family. I know that they are not the choices everyone would make, and indeed that not everyone has the financial wherewithal to choose private school. Having made those choices for me, I don't feel the need to judge state schools and those who attend or teach in them. I got a fantastic education from the state schools I attended and I know many children now who are getting an equally fantastic education from their state schools.

What I don't understand is why so many MNetters feel the need to attack private schools in such a vitriolic and personal way. I know that not everyone agrees with them politically or morally but the children who go there are just children. They're not some kind of curious freak show. And the teachers who teach there are just teachers. Some are good and some are bad, some are imaginative and inspirational and some are not. But how on earth can anyone assert that that is not just the same in state schools?

Thanks for not sweeping me aside then SleepingLion, even if in a patronising way.

To reassure you, I agree! Of course there are outstanding private school teachers. There are obviously some very dull state school teachers too; I was taught by lots of them. fwiw, I was really trying to broaden the debate a bit as it annoys me when we talk about tick box levels of academia, especially at such a young age. I'm all for learning literacy, maths, etc as they're vital, but for me education is about so much more than that, as it's about the whole ethos/ attitude of the school. The attitude of the teachers is obviously key to that.

Now I'm guessing if you put me and you together in a room and told us to choose the school which we thought best, we'd make vastly different choices. Which is of course what's good in some ways about the system in this country. Can't say I agree with it as it's inherently unfair, but some at least can choose the school they want. And yes, I fully admit that putting the two groups side by side in a pub is far from scientific, but the state teachers were so much more interesting as people and that's my point. They were genuinely inspiring, energetic, vibrant and passionate about life, let alone teaching. That's what I've seen mostly in my son's current school. The contrast with my SIL's friends is sadly stark (nice as they were). The teachers who my son has met have mostly been incredible. Diverse backgrounds, origins, life experience levels and I like that, is all and believe it's important. But then that's just me.

I guess if I was to expand it I'd say is that the case? Have the inner city primaries got the edge in terms of bagging the lion's share of the exciting new teachers? After all, you don't go into an inner city primary unless you want a challenge. And no am not saying teaching in the private sector is a piece of cake, as any teaching is hard work. But I am saying maybe some of the private schools miss out on the cream of the new crop. I'd be interested to know if others thought the same.

SL you do sounds a mite defensive though. I can't see that much vitriol or attacking on here. Yes there's a bit but it's more people stating views/ opinions. Isn't that what MN is all about?

I think state schools vary wildly as everyone has said on here. I can say this from personal experience, as my DD is in reception and changed schools in April (state to state).

There is also the big factor of individual children learning at different paces. I can't really tell you what my DD's friends are doing tbh I can only tell you where she is at.

My DD is at ORT level 2 although her reading is more at ORT level 3. I think confidence has been an issue and the last school seems to be investing more time in her. At her last school her class teacher was very busy spending time with the large number of children who were behind in the minimum targets the schools had to achieve by the end of reception, so she was pretty much ignored and her confidence took a huge dip.

Also low level disruption was more tolerated and my DD really struggled to cope with this aspect, so she could never focus on a task as someone broke-scribbled-ripped her work. In her new school for whatever reason this is not happening.

In her current school she seems to be getting a lot more attention and she is becoming more confident and catching up with her reading. (By the way, we've always read with her at home but her confidence dip meant she suddenly begun to struggle and not want to read at all, ending up in tears very ooften).

Her writing is very good, she can write stories pretty much on her own with some spelling errors and she is very good on punctuation etc...I think this is because with writing she doesn't have to perform and she is more willing to have a go. Also her school is very keen on developing this skill and strength and she gets to write every day.

We get a few writing tasks to do home as well so that is clearly helping.

I can't answer your question on numeracy as nothing has come home and I am not sure what they are doing. I know she can add/subtract in decimals but we taught her that.

Hope this helped answer your question! As a last consideration I would say that comparing schools is every so difficult also because individual children need such different things to thrive and whilst some children thrive anywhere some need very specific things to happen. That's why it is never straightforward! But maybe this is going off your original post!!!

"The usual private school thing it that children are working 2 years ahead of state school children by the age of 7.

Don't believe the spin!"

I would agree with this. My dd moved from prep to a state school. We were told by her previous school that on average they were working 2 years ahead of the state system. We were also told that our own dd was 3 to four years ahead. When we changed schools we found that she was only in the middle of the class for ability. There are many far ahead of her. The standard of work is much higher in this particular state school. They also seem to have more time to play and be creative. I am guessing this differs a great deal from school to school though.

someone explain to me what is meant exactly by 'free reading?' please.

Origami's right, it's impossible to compare. What's key is obviously what's right for your child as the individual they are. So broadly, is the school a great place for them to be in every way, and not just academically.

free reading means off the reading scheme. Usually reading paperbacks from school library.

origami - thanks!

Interesting reading.

My son was a free reader in rec,his brother the 1st term of Y1,I suspect their sister will be the same. There are many,many others in their school that are the same. They all have spellings and plenty of phonics homework. This is a state school.

My friend's dd is at the local private school. I've read some of the laughable literature they send home proclaiming their brilliance in education. Said friend is rather hacked off as my dc are streaks ahead and we've not paid a penny.

Basically I too wouldn't believe the spin.I have friends who teach in the private sector who believe exactly the same and send their kids to state schools because of this very reason.

Private schools need to sell themselves,they are a business after all. There are good private schools and those that are dire,this is the same in the public sector.

I personally don't believe a private school guarantees you a better education just because they're 'private',tread very carefully.

I hate this umbrella term 'private' as if just the word guarantees you something far superior to state regardless of the school-it really doesn't.

Not defensive, smee, just tired of the cumulative effect of the private/state threads on MN which always seem to go the same way, and BicycleBelle's post about the privately educated children she knows who can't mix, can't share and can't talk to others is a very good example of what I would regard as the subjective kind of generalisation that I hate.

I would never dream of posting a comment sweepingly slating the social skills of all the state school children I know. I know some children who find it difficult to share and some who find it difficult to mix but I think and talk about them as individuals rather than some kind of homogenous lump.

Equally, my DS is a very good reader as is his friend X who attends a state school - they are more or less at the same level. Friend Y, however, finds reading more challenging but is fantastic at maths. And so on. Isn't that how we should be talking about children? As individuals?

You say "The teachers who my son has met have mostly been incredible. Diverse backgrounds, origins, life experience levels and I like that, is all and believe it's important. But then that's just me. " No, not just you - I believe it's important as well. And oddly enough, my son has met teachers just like that at his private school. And I work with teachers like that at the school I teach at. I'm not sure why you would imply that only state schools have that, and only parents who choose state schools care about that.

As I said SL I was very, very careful to state that it was far from scientific and I also said it was anecdotal. I was just curious as to whether it was only me who'd found that and openly asked the question to see. Surely I'm allowed to ask?! To reassure you, I certainly would never ever imply that parents who chose private schools don't care. Of course we all care. But I do think often people weight choice of school towards academic levels of attainment and neglect/ or not even fail to appreciate how important general ethos/ atmosphere/ exposure to the community and real world via school, etc can be, so thought it worth making a post.

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gosh! dilemma456; your dd's school sounds exhausting

Private schools are definitely for people who think that homework is important

They would not suit those of us who don't!

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my dd who is at a prep school that gets lots of people into one of the best girls schools in the country has about the same amount of homework as dilemma's DD - and she is in yr 5! Well maybe a bit more but nowhere as much as most of the private schools around here which also have Sat school and 6pm finishes. I don't think homework is necessary to achieve, some parents just expect it. I remember reading an article about a leading boys school that had reduced homework from an average of 4 hrs a day (!) to 1-2 hrs with no change in results.

My DCS are at a high achieving state primary (going by KS2 sats) however reception seems to be going at a much slower pace than the private/state schools you have all referred to above.
Phonics/reading didn't start until the second half of the autumn term. The children change their books every day but there is no homework other than the reading book. At school I think they are learning to read and write certain key words each week and they are learning the cursive writing. No one in the class is free reading yet despite most of the parents being university educated - lecturers, accountants, city types etc. Many of the children are doing well with reading and will probably be free reading at some point in yr 1.

When I read some of the threads about what people's children are doing in reception on mumsnet, in particular the weekly spellings and writing homework, it feels a world away from the pace of my children's school.

Snowlady I don't think many private school reception kids will be free reading either tbh. It would be pretty unusual apart from at the ultra-selective schools surely?

Builde, don't you mean "schools that set a lot of homework are definitely for people who think that homework is important. They would not suit those of us who don't!"?

My DS is in Reception at a private school and has no homework (other than sending a reading book home). When Helokitty's DD was in Reception at a state school last year she had loads of homework. Which of those would suit you better?

I don't think homework is particularly helpful. I deliberately picked a school that doesn't do lots (it certainly does less than the state schools I know of in this area). You presumably did the same. Why is it a private/state issue?

Wheelsonthebus -

To answer your question - dc teacher confirmed today, her words 'by the end of Y2 the government wants them level 2, we will have the class all as a level 3'.

HTH so you know what you'd be aspiring to if joining this prep school.

The thing I find interesting Kola is that maybe some of the kids shouldn't be/ aren't ready to be level 3 by end Yr 2. Great if they are obviously, and am sure teachers can tell better than me, but those I've spoken to say in early primary kids develop at incredibly different levels. So my son for eg is Yr 1, easily working at Yr 2 levels in maths, but so far hasn't clicked with reading so is below average for his age. Teacher (wisely I think/ hope!) isn't pushing him, just gently encouraging and challenging him to progress which he is. He'll obviously click at some point and the great thing is he still loves books and is excited by reading.

Am only saying this because some state schools and I'd guess a lot of Private schools feel the need to ensure the kids are ahead of average levels because of parental pressure/ Sats pressures. My SIL in a v. good and selective private school says the pressure to get kids onto level 5 in yr6, so they have to hot house them through to make sure they get them all there. She says mostly the kids can do it easily but every year there's a couple who she feels really sorry for pushing so hard. So it can't be right for all, surely?

I think many Y2 teachers have the same expectation to be honest state or private.

IMHO This can only be said by someone who is going to fiddle results.

This stinks of unmoderated levelling at the end of Y2, with a smattering of sales talk and sucking up to parents thrown in.

I would LOVE to see some of this across-the-board level 3 writing, having just had a child into my class allegedly 'writing at 3B', who is patently writing at 2A.

Yes, mrz, of course we do - but kolacube's teacher has confirmed that they will 'all' be L3!!!

(Or did I misunderstand?)