DD Failing KS1

[PeacefulLiz]

Feeling despondant because DD is going to get 1's for KS1 in reading and writing. Nothing seems to help her, and I am devestated that she's going to enter the juniors unable to read or write. Reading is such a struggle for her (she can't really read anything independently), and I don't see how she'll be able to cope in Y3.

Can any teachers on here tell me what it will be like for her in Y3? Lots of adults reading her work out to her so she learns she can't do anything by herself? Plus lots of extra phonics practice and flashcard work? (Which hasn't helped for the last 3 years...)

How can I keep her self confidence up?

How can I not put too much pressure on her when we read at home when I am so worried?

Her homework is always too hard for her, no matter how much I tell her teacher. What should I do about it?

(She is on the SEN register at School Action, and gets ten minutes 1:1 extra help allready. And she has had this level of support since reception.)

Sorry peacefulliz, not a teacher but not wanting to leave yr post unanswered.

I think you need to go and speak to the school.

My exp of yr 3 is that in general there will not be huge amounts of phonics etc.

My DC go to inf and jnr schools so juniors are yr3 onwards and a lot is expected of them in terms of independence etc (rightly so).

The current yr3 at the school has been streamed for literacy; the resultant lowest stream gets a good deal of help eg resident TA etc. I was helping there for a writing week they did and was amazed by how well all of them did. Even those who really struggle got on well when given 1-1 help.

Go and ask the teacher for next year what help will be in place for yr DD.

I assume the basics have been eliminated eg she is not dyslexic etc? (dyslexia very hard to diagnose before 7 I believe).

Hi Peacefulliz. Please don't despair. Sometimes reading just "doesn't click" until they are 7 or 8.

As Clary says, do go into school and ask their advice. Maybe make an appointment with the SENCO. Ask what they are putting into place for her.

10 mins does not seem very much. Is that every day?

Does she have an IEP? Has she been assessed by an Ed Psych?

Do you sit down and share books/reading literacy activities with her every day?

I have had loads of talks with the SENCO and the headteacher. All to no avail.

The SENCO says it is not 'best practice' to assess for dyslexia. But I also agree that a label of dyslexia won't help, becuase it doesn't actually give you many clues as to what will help her. (My school belive in the holy grail of the read write inc synthetic phonics scheme, and can't think of anything else to do with her - besides wordshark and numbershark)

The SENCO also refuses to put her on the waiting list to see the Ed Psych because 'she is making progress' ( Yeah right, she's only gone up one book band all year, and that's only because she had already read every blue book twice over. But after 2 terms on green they are still too hard for her.)

In her IEP she is meant to get the 10 mins every day. I think that is quite a lot of 1:1 time. Plus she always has a LSA on her table. Plus they do 20 mins phonics every day, and there's only 4 in her phonics group.

I don't want her to spend the rest of her life 'being supported' by a LSA. I want her to be able to work independently. At a minimum to keep up with the rest of the kids on the bottom table.

They don't stream in our school.

It's such a crying shame you can't keep kids back a year in the UK.

I read her a bedtime story most days, but I don't do literacy activites with her, apart from in the holidays, because they just stress us both out - and anyway she's already done an hour of literacy and phonics and 1:1 at school. Another hour of the same thing with me isn't going to help. (Not that she could actually do an hour more of work after school.)

Her younger brother can read and write far better than her. It's hard to find work she can do that isn't aimed at younger children and therefore doesn't come accross as patronsing. Or have a big 'For 5 - 6' year olds stamped on the cover.

Sorry. I know there's no answer to this one. But I refuse to lower my expectations - as the school wants me to.

PS Obviously she is of 'normal' intelligence. If they ever did do an IQ test with her it would fall well within the large average lump.

Yes, if you find it stressful then doing literacy stuff with her won't help. But just 10-15 mins in the evening or first thing in the morning could make a difference. It doesn't have to be stressful. It can be fun. Just little games and so on. Matching up cards and so on.

If you don't feel able to, maybe you could find a student or young person locally who'd be happy to do call round and 'play some games' with her?

What's her other school work like? Maths? Speaking/listening? Socialising? co-ordination? Handwriting?

I'd push for an EP assessment tbh. It is quite a crucial age/stage.

Is there anyone in your family with traits of dyslexia? This is what it's sounding like to me.

I totally disagree that a label of dyslexia would not be useful(if she is of course). If you can foot the bill, I would bite the bullet and pay for a private Ed Psych report. IME dyslexics who have early specialist intervention fare much better than those who are diagnosed later. Good luck!

Yes there is dyslexia in the family

I can pay for a private Ed Psych report. And they will tell me she is dyslexic (a private one always does). But that won't help her learn to read.

There isn't any recognised specialist intervention for dyslexia. There isn't even one definition of dyslexia. It's not a medical condition - it's a catch all term for people who have difficulty learning to read. But that difficulty could be done to any one of a dozen reasons.

None of the dyslexics I know have benefited from an Ed Psych report. Especially a private one which the school is free to ignore. The Ed Psych report always just suggests a range of strategies - all of which I have probably already found out about via the magic of the internet. A school Ed Psych report is worth more because then the school is under more obligation to follow its recommendations, and I am pushing for it, but it will be months if not years before I get that.

I forgot to say I have done loads and loads of work at home with her. Including all the major dyslexic stuff like toe by toe and dancing bears, I am just not currently doing any work with her, because I've tried doing lots of work with her, so now I'm trying doing nothing with her.

Over the summer holidays I will do yet another dyslexic programme with her (probably easyread or self voice or acceleread). And it may or may not work.

Her Maths is also terrible (although school disagree and tell me her maths is fine). But her speaking, listening, writing, co-ordination and socialising are all fine.

Sorry to be so negative, but I am just so cross, upset and worried about it. (Cross with the school that is.)

I know she can learn, it's just that school keep on trying the same thing over and over, instead of trying different strategies.

There are hundreds of diff strategies. But which ones to try? And when?

Peaceful Liz, can I be blunt? (I am going to be, and if it isn't helpful, just ignore me, I won't be at all offended).

If your DD has dyslexia, then whether you get an Ed Psych to say it or not, she will still have it.

All resisting assessment will do, in my opinon, is allow your DD to think that she is just 'no good' at this stuff.

If your DD has dyslexia, it can actually be really very empowering. She will know there is a reason why things are tough for her, and there are things that will help.

My DD1 has significant special needs. I have had to push and push and push to keep people interested in her needs and her progress. It isn't that they don't want to, it is that the demand for intervention is so high, and the workers so few, that they will put off anyone who isn't determined. DD1 will start a Special school in September, which has only been allocated because I went over the head of the person who was meant to be organising her assessment and pushed for assessment myself (I did tell her I was going to - nicely ).

Your DD has been given 10 minutes of 1:1 support - what on earth can that achieve?? By the time she has had a couple of minutes to warm up and focus, 5 minutes to 'do stuff' and a couple of minutes to process what she has been doing, it is over.

She has spent 3 years with very little support, and is now very behind.

You want her to work independently. And she can. But first she needs significant help to build the foundations of confidence and knowledge. Trying to make her run when she can't walk is pointless and heartbreaking - for her and for you.

If I were you, I would go to the SENCO, and insist that she puts her on the Ed Psych waiting list. If she says no, tell her that if she doesn't, you will apply for a Statutory Assessment of Special Educational Needs - then see how fast she changes her mind!!!!

Hi Lou.

Thanks for being blunt. It's not that I'm resistant to her having a label. I know she's dyslexic. I 100% believe she has dyslexia.

It's just that honestly a private ed psych report has no weight at all with my school. Other dyslexic kids have been down that route.

There is absolutely no way she'll get a statement, as she can read a bit, and you know how hard they are to get. For dyslexia they are impossible because it is a 'high incidence' condition that the school are expect to be able to routinely deal with. Threatening the SENCO with that would not work at all, because we both know she's not nearly nearly bad enough for a statement.

Can we assume that I know she has dyslexia, that I've done a lot of research on it, and that we're doing all the right things for her - and that nothing we do or an EP suggests can make her catch up quickly.

So what my OP was really meant to be about, is what happens in the juniors when you're very far behind? Can any teachers on here give me more of a clue about that?

"There isn't any recognised specialist intervention for dyslexia"

A friend at school has a dyslexia tutor for her child. This has helped her immensely.

Have you looked at dyslexia action?

Yes I've talked to dyslexia action.

Sorry but I started sympathetically and ended up cross.

Why? There is plenty of specialist intervention for dyslexia. It is not a death sentence, there is help that can help. However just going over and over and over the same thing in the same way will not help.

My sons dyslexia assessment was not just a piece of paper saying yes he has dyslexia, it came with a huge range of suggestions for how he could be helped. If you don't want to pay for the assessment but can afford it I would suggest you pay for some specialist tution.

I would also suggest that you get your daughter's hearing checked (especially for Auditory Process Disorder, which doesn't show up on a normal hearing test). And get her eyes tested, especially for tacking problems (if you can't get a specialist optician then Dyslexia Research Trust has clinics in Oxford and Reading).

If you want to help her yourself then using something like Toe-by-Toe or Phonographix could help.

Is the ten minutes, ten minutes a day or week? Neither is enough, the best intervention I know takes at least 1/2 hour at least 3 times a week.

If the school isn't going to do its job, maybe you need to look for a new school which can help dyslexic children.

Good luck!

Sorry, I know I'm coming across wrong. I definatley don't think dyslexia is a death sentance. Eventually she will learn to read and eventually she will be fine.

The 10 minutes is every day. But it's not about how much 1:1 time she gets, it's about what is done with the time.

I don't really want to get into the problems I'm having with school in this thread. But again, take it as read that I am doing everything I can to get the right schooling for her - including changing school. And once we've changed school and I have more faith in the SENCO then I will consider a private Ed Psych report, if the new SENCO thinks its a good idea.

She has been checked for Auditory Processing Disorder and Irlen syndrome. We have used Toe By Toe and Dancing Bears. Her problem is not with blending, she is able to blend.

My point is not that none of the dyslexic interventions will help. I'm sure they will, and we are working our way through them. Like I said come the summer holidays we will start another programme.

The point is that none of them will help quickly. There is very little chance that she will start the juniors being able to keep up with the bottom table.

So my post was meant to be about that.

But - which is the best intervention you were referring to?

Depending upon how rich you feel you can get her independently assessed by an ed psch who may be able to provide some more clues as to where her problems lie. Around here it costs about £200-250.

Surely any good head would be able to suggest how much support she will get in year 3. I would demand answers and speak to the governors if the head is unable to help.

I agree with PeacefulLiz having a label won't change things her child is still going to have difficulties that need to be addressed.

It isn't too late for your daughter (honestly) and really it is down to your school and the expertise of the KS2 staff. We use a programme called LEXIA which children use with a LSA for 15 mins each morning before school begins (some children also access it at home if needed) in addition to this children like your daughter read with a LSA (individually) and we use a system called Action Words for "tricky" words needed before children have the skills/knowledge to decode independently. We don't withdraw children from lessons all interventions are in addition to not a substitute for quality class teaching. All too often the "strugglers" are sent off with a LSA while the teacher works with the rest of the class, when in fact it is the strugglers who most need a teacher.
We find our approach works for our children. I think what you need to know from your school is what approach they will be using and how effective they find it.
Good Luck

Thanks MRZ.

I guess you're right - what I really want to know is what approach they will be using, and how effective it is. But as she will be going to a different juniors, I can't really find out any of the things I want to know until after she has started in Sep.

But it is useful to know that she should be getting help in addition and not be withdrawn from literacy lessons. Also very interesting that your school does work with kids outside school hours.

I have a lot of faith in the SEN provision at the juniors, as they have been very good to my ASD boy. But I haven't yet had a chance to talk to them about my DD and find out what they will do. I guess that should be my prioirty now (-:

Thanks

I'm sure if you gave the school a ring (especially as your son is/was a pupil) they could find time to chat about your concerns.

I apologise as I have not read the complete thread. However, your DD sounds just like my niece. Firstly getting a private report did help my DSis applied to the LEA for their list of approved Edpschologist and used one of them so the school had to take note. My DSis moved school to one that used a variety of methods to learn to read as the Edpsch explained that Dniece's type of dyslexia meant she could learn to read through phonics.
My Dniece learnt to read within 6 months of changing school and method of learning to read. Now she is in year 5 and because of her previous assessment the school have just performed another assessment to provide her with a report with which to apply to senior school. Next year she will either have extra time in her SATS or a reader, in her situation they are going try both in the next to see which is best for her before the SATS. They have also now started teaching her phonics again now she is older and more able to understand the principle.
Remember Dyslexics have really poor short term memory so most of their learning is through lots of repetition.
Finally both myself and DSis are labelled dyslexics, however, with the right help we went on a obtained 5 degree level qualifications between us and are respectively a veterinary surgeon and a chartered construction engineer. As a child my parents always praised and rewarded effort regardless of achievement and this had a huge effect on our self confidence. Being dyslexic is hard and you always feel that you have to work 10 times as hard as everyone else to achieve the same result, so it is really important to feel that someone notices and comments on your hard work.

I agree actually that a Ed Psych report is not your top priority. If the school is good she will be able to cope with year 3. My DCs school coped fine with my son who has tremendous difficulty writing. (Actually his senior school have been very good too, not in all bottom sets, and differentiated homework.)

Have to rush, but good luck, and do talk to the school

Op - many chn don't like toe by toe. Individual tuiton from a dyslexia specialist teacher would be worthwhile because the teacher will be able to structure the intervention specifically to your child's needs. Year 2/3 is a really good age to start the tuition as well.

Hi PeacefulLiz,

I just wanted to say that if your child is dyslexic, then an Ed Psych report is absolutely necessary because it will pin-point all of your daughter's specific needs, and it will state recommendations regarding necessary support and strategies to help her. It will also make it much easier to get a statement, which will of course enforce schools to provide the extra support that your daughter needs. You will need this to get support in exams in the future (extra time, reader, scribe etc).

Of course, your daughter might not be dyslexic, but if you think she is then paying for a private assessment is definitely worth it.

I do think self-esteem shouldn't be underestimated. I have a child in my class with sever dyslexia and he "grows" with each piece of praise. It is important to praise the work/effort rather than to compare the end point/ product with other children who may not have had to work so hard.

Thanks guys. I'm starting to get more of a plan sorted in my head now. I didn't know that the LEA can recommend an approved Ed Psych. That's really useful info.

Same problem really with finding a dyslexia specialist teacher. How do you do that? I mean I know loads of people will claim to be such, but without investing months in them how can you tell if they actually are going to be any good? Plus how on earth can we find time to use one? She absolutely cannot do any work after school because she is too tired. Sat mornings are for her cycling which is something she's very good at, so would take priority (because I think it's important that she does things she's good at...) So that would either leave Sunday, or arranging with school that she has extra tution during school hours.

This is my preferred choice, but would require us working with the juniors for a while and together agreeing that that would be sensible. We are actually flexi-schooling my older DS with ASD there at the moment, so I'm hopeful that we could come to such an arrangement with them for DD - if all the other things they're going to try aren't working. But I'd want to give them a minumum of 2 terms before going that route.

So in summary, I'm going to ring the juniors once school starts again and find out their approach. And I'm going to put off a private Ed Psych report and private dyslexia tutoring till I've worked with the new school for a couple of terms and know whether they're able to help or not. And I'm going to continue to research dyslexia interventions that can be done at home.

My current list of interesting interventions include:

• Selfvoice (also called ARROW)
• Acceleread / accelewrite
• Easyreadsystem
• Dancing Bears
• Davies Method (She's too young for this now)
• BABO
• Phono-graphix (thanks to an earlier poster)

Dyslexia Action can help with specialist tuition, also just wanting to mention that read write inc and the synthetic approach to reading are excellent for dyslexic children.