DD Failing KS1

[PeacefulLiz]

Feeling despondant because DD is going to get 1's for KS1 in reading and writing. Nothing seems to help her, and I am devestated that she's going to enter the juniors unable to read or write. Reading is such a struggle for her (she can't really read anything independently), and I don't see how she'll be able to cope in Y3.

Can any teachers on here tell me what it will be like for her in Y3? Lots of adults reading her work out to her so she learns she can't do anything by herself? Plus lots of extra phonics practice and flashcard work? (Which hasn't helped for the last 3 years...)

How can I keep her self confidence up?

How can I not put too much pressure on her when we read at home when I am so worried?

Her homework is always too hard for her, no matter how much I tell her teacher. What should I do about it?

(She is on the SEN register at School Action, and gets ten minutes 1:1 extra help allready. And she has had this level of support since reception.)

Fluperoo - she has been on read write inc for a year and a half. And she hasn't yet learnt all of the 44 phonics. Nor indeed all of her reception words.

This is why I seriously doubt that a highly structured synthentics phonics approach is right for her (this is the main recommendation on most dyslexia sites...)

This is also why I hate the label dyslexia. If synthetic phonics works for some dyslexic kids, and not for others, then I think it is because dyslexia isn't one condition. It's a cover term for many underlying conditions. And therefore not a very helpful diagnosis.

StewieGriffinsMom - we live in greater London. Close enough to a dyslexia action to go there for an assesment, but not close enough to go there for weekly tution. When I rang them up they seemed to be about managing my expectations as much as the school was. ie we'll provide a report to show what you can expect from her.

I tell you what I expect from her. I expect her to be able to read and write and thrive in the school system. When I stop expecting her to be able to keep up with her peers I'll take her out of the education system.

I have also spoken to my GP on several occassions about this, and she didn't recommend and Ed Psych. I didn't realise she could refer me...

"I can pay for a private Ed Psych report. And they will tell me she is dyslexic (a private one always does)."

Still following your thread even though you snapped at me last time I posted. Just thought it worth mentioning that I organised a private ed psych assessment for my dd and was told that she was NOT dyslexic.

With regards to synthetic phonics, it's possible that your daughter may have made less progress without it.

Sorry to bang on, but Dyslexia Action do Ed Pysch reports. You say that the dyslexia label isn't useful because it's a cover term for many underlying conditions, but an Ed Psych report will pin-point exactly what your daughter's 'underlying conditions' actually are, and what support is need to address these.

Also your DD's school may not be following synthetic phonics rigidly enough for her - DS lost a lot of ground when his school introduced letter names,because all the other children had mastered phonics.Then the same thing happened when they moved on to joined up writing from print(they weren't taught cursive letter formation from reception)
I wrote this post a while back but the thread has moved on ,but it may still be relevant.It is a bit long though - sorry!

My DS is dyslexic - he is in year 5 now,and I'm trying to remember what he could do in Yr 2.He couldn't write at all,and writing is still a big problem.He has had regular help in school ,but his school does take them out of class(which he doesn't like)
TBH the thing that has helped him most has been tuition at Dyslexia Action,partly because it is a long chunk of more or less 1 to 1(he is with one other child),and because they are experts and able to tailor what they do to what helps your child.He goes out of school for this,but in our area they do go into some schools.

For homework we did what we could,and told the teacher about problems.I'd also read somewhere about aiming to fulfil the point of the homework - so I would scribe for him if the actual writing wasn't the main point.I would limit time too - so he did a good 30 minutes or whatever,but often the work would not get finished in that time.Maths he can do,but DD couldn't(and used to fall apart faced with maths work) - for her I would make her do it if I thought she was able to ,and send it back marked that she couldn't do it if not. We did have one helpful conversation with a teacher who said "well,she's on the easiest work already" - well,dur - but she can't do it!!She had a reader for SATs and for some work in class - it is very hard to get the balance between helping them do what the rest of class is doing,and teaching them they cannot do this themselves ,IMO

I do think you should speak to her new school now.Also be prepared to keep on and on speaking to the school - which it sounds as if you are now-,be very positive about her strengths,and see what strategies you can find for reading at home that allow your DD to actually enjoy books - for us what worked was me not commenting at all on missed or misread words,but just reading them for DS.(that worked for us because I am naturally a bossy "what does that say,no,that's a p isn't it - and what comes next? So it can't say dog can it?"type of parent...)

Ds can now read for pleasure - yay!,but writing is still a big problem and I am worrying how he will manage at secondary level...

When Pogleswood says that the school might not be following synthetic phonics rigidly enough I suspect that she might be right.

I found alarm bells ringing when you talked about 'book bands, but this needs a little clarification. When you refer to 'blue' books are you talking about the different levels of the decodeable books which are part of the Read Write Inc programme, or is the school using some other scheme as reading books?

What exactly is your dd's problem with reading?

Is it that she can't remember the letter/sound correspondences? Because if it is, then it is possible that she has a memory problem and there is no way on earth that any other method of teaching her to read (and there is only one other 'method', Look & Say, which requires the memorisation of whole words) is going to suceed any better than the synthetic phonics. If it is a choice between hard work learning look & say & hard work learning SP then the SP will win every time because it will ultimately give her the essential skills she needs for successful reading, Look & Say most definitely won't in your DD's case (though it appears to work for some)

Specialist Dyslexia teaching has a very fine ring to it, but I am afraid it is not always particularly effective, or based on up to date knowledge of how children learn to read and the most effective ways to teach them. Much of 'accepted knowledge' about dyslexia and how to deal with it is just stuff that has been mindlessly passed on over the years without any real test of whether or not it is actually valid or necessary. Did you know that the most well known must, which is always chanted as being 'what dyslexics need', multi-sensory teaching, has absolutely no scientific evidence base to justify it (though I agree absolutely that it 'feels'right)

Sorry to rant, I feel very strongly about a lot of the rubbish which surrounds 'dyslexia'.

Anyway, as a programme to try with your DD, I would very strongly recommend the 'little books' to be found here: www.piperbooks.co.uk/ This is a completely unique, very effective and quite inexpensive programme. (No, I don't have shares in it!)

Your school should be able to offer more help. If they can't find a school that can!!

At my DD's school they have and army of TAs who take children out of class for 1:1 or small group specialised learning. They have TA's with specific training to help the children with dyslexia. This is a normal state primary.

If I were you I would be visiting the local schools and having a frank conversation with the heads about what they can do for your DD and then getting her on the waiting list for the one that can help her in a positive way.

PeacefulLiz,

I don't know all the programmes you have listed but I can send you some free systematic immediately for you to consider and perhaps to start with over the summer hols.

In any event, I have free material in unit 1 with no registration required and which includes many helpful versions of The Alphabetic Code Chart. You literally have to click on the website and then on 'unit 1' in the left hand menu bar.

If you like what you see, then email me and I'll send you my Early Years Starter Package material which covers letter/s-sound correspondences of units 1 to 6 of the full programme.

You don't need to pay for a specialist tutor to help you do this - it's all laid out for you and your daughter in the systematic resources. You just need to devote some time to reading what's provided online.

See www.phonicsinternational.com .

Teachers of phonics may also be interested. The Alphabetic Code Charts are generic and can be used with other programmes based on synthetic phonics teaching.

I would recommend Debbie's programme to anyone. Very comprehensive resources and extremely effective

Don't get your DD assessed to find out where her problems lie, aren't you just waving your arms in the dark grabbing random solutions?

If you don't get her assessed. Word missing!

Personally I don't think you need to pay for an assessment of a private tutor but that is your choice.

I agree with Cat- look at her progress/ achievement over time and don't compare it to where other children are they all had different starting points and while she may not have reached the same NC level it could well be she has achieved far more.

Thanks everyone.

Debbie, I can't open the pdf's in unit 1 on your site. Is it my computer or is there a problem with your site? (Could well be my computer, I'll try on my other computer later...)

maizieD, thanks for the link to piper books.

mrz - "I agree with Cat- look at her progress/ achievement over time " This is the whole point. There has been almost no progress in the 3 years she's been at school. In school speak she has gone from a level 1B to a level 1C this year. In my speak she has gone from knowing half her reception words, to knowing most of them. From starting to read CVC reads, to being able to read CVC reads slowly. In IEP speak she 'partially achieved' her goal of learning 20 reception words in 6 months.

Why shouldn't I compare her to other kids? Is she not a kid? Has she not had the same education as everyone else in class? She's on the SEN register for 'failing to progress at the same rate as her peers'. Is that not about comparing her to other kids?

I have already vastly lowered my expectations. My current goal is for her to be able to keep up with the bottom table. To lower them any further would be unfair to DD who is a normal, average kid - and may be self fulfilling. I think lowering my expectations even further would be a tragedy.

But thanks everyone. It certainly is interesting hearing the range of opinions on the topic.

PeacefulLiz you shouldn't compare her with other kids because you don't know what they were capable of before starting school. You don't know if they are being coached at home. You don't know them! You know your daughter! Comparing her with others does nothing for her self-esteem. She is probably well aware that other children can read books she can't and can spell words she can't which is why you need to celebrate her success (however small- and each small success grows into a bigger one in time) not her failure to meet their standards.
I know you are worried you are her mum and you care...that's normal but please don't be disappointed in her.

I'm not saying lower your expectations just make your expectations about her and not about the bottom table (I really hate that label!)

peacefulliz My DS is also 'failing' KS1 (the teacher was not even sure whether to enter him for SATs at all. He has a SEN statement (for 'mild learning difficulties') and recieves extra help in a small group (mainly doining phonics stuff) while other kids are in assembly. We are also given extra work to do at home. The big difference for us is that our school do stream, DS is in the bottom class (of 3) for literacy and numeracy and it has really helped him grow in confidence as he no longer compares himself to more able kids (as he did in yr2). His group have extra help from classroom assistants and volunteers which are essential. This will continue in Yr3. DS has not been assessed for dyslexia either.

PeacefulLiz,did you mean your DD has gone from a 1B to a 1C,which is actually losing ground,or did you mean the other way round?The expected progress in the National curruculum is 3 sublevels in 2 years,so a sublevel in a year is progress,especially given that children progress in fits and starts.
My other comment is on you wanting her to keep up with the bottom table. I know it is really hard when your child struggles with something every other child in the class seems to have mastered ,but I never wanted to look on DS as someone who was struggling to keep up with the bottom table.In reading and writing,yes - but all the time that the teacher couldn't assess his writing because he just didn't do it,he was coming home and telling me in great detail about what he'd learnt in school .They are children who are capable of a lot,who have specific problems.They also know they are struggling more than other kids and the other kids know it too.I think what I'm trying to say is do try not to be too focussed on what she can't do,because she needs you to be reminding her about all the things she can do.

Hi, my son was very far behind when he changed schools at the beginning of year 2. He was at level 6 when he should have been at level 19. So he went on the reading recovery scheme. We were so fortunate that he got a place as I know that not all schools do it and he progressed to level 24 within 16 weeks and is now above average at reading.

So, if your school does this scheme can she get onto it?

If not, can you afford for her to do it privately (just asking as you said you could afford a private ed pycho?). I think though it is a very expensive scheme. It is half an hour of intensive 1-1 for 20 weeks.

Sorry, I did mean from a 1C to a 1B. So slow progress. Not adequate according to the SEN COP, but nor is it absolutely abyssmal and to the level of a statement.

According to our school reports last year, average for Y1 is a 1B, and average for Y2 is 2B, so therefore my Headteacher believes that children should be making 3 sublevels of progress in Y2. So how they can then turn round and tell me that 1 sublevel is adequate is beyond me. ( Actually they didn't - first of all the class teacher told me she was going to get a 2C, it was only when I threatened to make a formal complaint to the board of governers that the headteacher denied that the class teacher had told me she was going to get a 2C, and admitted she was actually currently a 1B)

cat64 - "for an Ed Psych to agree to it where I work, you'd have to be at least 2 years behind the 'average' for your age to be even considered"
My school has an allowance of EP time to spend every term. And they can spend it on whoever they choose. The EP can't turn them down. It's the school not prioritising her above other kids. Now I happen to know some of the other kids who have seen the EP this term, and I very strongly feel that my DD's difficulties are worse than theirs - and even their parents agree. But it is the SENCO's decision, and can not be challenged.

It's also prety hard to be 2 years behind average when you're in year 2.

Pogleswood - "it is very hard to get the balance between helping them do what the rest of class is doing,and teaching them they cannot do this themselves ,IMO"
This was exactly what my original post was meant to be asking. Still no closer to answering this question (:

Pogleswood, very good advice not to be too focussed on what she can't do - but easier to say than to do. After all if I don't worry about her progress, who will? School are quite happy with her progress. And if I don't worry how will I find the key to unlock her potential?

mrz, I'm not disappointed in her. Very very frightened that if school doesn't click for her soon she's going to be in a bad place. A downward spiral which is only going to get harder to get out of each year. But not disappointed.

maizied - "
Specialist Dyslexia teaching has a very fine ring to it, but I am afraid it is not always particularly effective, or based on up to date knowledge of how children learn to read and the most effective ways to teach them."
Yes, I agree.

maizied - "
What exactly is your dd's problem with reading?"
Her problem is with her memory. She knows her alphabet now, and can pretty much read CVC words (although not fluently). But she can't remember the rest of her phonics. So if you show her goat she won't recognise that oa is a phonic. And when you point it out, she won't remember what sound it makes. It is actually quite hard if you think about it, because you have to look ahead to realise that you should be reading oa rather than just o.....

I know eventually she'll learn all her phonics. And I agree that synthetic phonics should work better for her than whole word learning, but there are more options than this. There are loads of different SP programmes, and different ways of teaching SP. There are also a lot of dyslexia programmes that don't focus on teaching you to read at all, but rather on their theory of the underlying problem (eg Davies method, dore method, rajiv method, coloured overlays ) So I don't want to just concentrate on SP, but rather concentrate on how she learns. I currently think the Davies method (gift of dyslexia) is the best explanation / theory of dyslexia, but she is a bit young to go on that course. So if I haven't made adequate progress by next summer that is defniately what I'll be doing with her. (It centres around making models out of clay to help visual learners picture the words)

But in the mean time I think I'll try easyreadsystem, because it is very visual, and it is done on the computer and not by me, so the computer won't get stressed with her. It is a SP programme, but 100% different strategy to toe-by-toe, Read write inc etc.

Sorry I didn't mean an 'ed pycho', I meant an 'ed Psych'!