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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

We got a letter from the head today confirming that SATS for Yr 6 will not be happening in our school

84 replies

OrmRenewed · 05/05/2010 21:12

And he sounded quite militant about it. Which surprised me a bit. The governors are in agreement. Unless the boycott is declared illegal.

DD chuffed to bits. And she was one of the ones heading for top levels across the board.

The teachers will grade the pupils from their own tests and assessment.

Hoo-bloody-ray!

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

roisin · 08/05/2010 15:34

Phew! We got a letter yesterday too confirming the SATs boycott. Same system as OP: they'll do a past paper that will be marked by teachers and then a sample will be independently moderated.

ds2 is targeted 5a in both and he's completely fine with it.

mrz · 08/05/2010 15:36

We are boycotting too (although staff would like to do the tests) Children will do last year's papers next week.

oldandgreynow · 09/05/2010 09:29

I thought the purpose of sats was to monitor how well the school are doing? So, if they've done their job properly, what are they afraid of?
The good thing about SATS tests is that they are objective and external.Teacher assessment seems like teachers assessing themselves.

BuzzingNoise · 09/05/2010 09:30

I think all year 6 pupils should do the sats this year...

..because I am a marker and I need the cash.

mrz · 09/05/2010 10:01

By oldandgreynow Sun 09-May-10 09:29:11
I thought the purpose of sats was to monitor how well the school are doing?

No the purpose of Ofsted and HMI and SIPs is to monitor how well schools are doing.

SATs are to see how children are doing compared to national expectations...

Politicians say parents like SATs because the league tables generated from the results allow them to compare how the children in Y6 performed compared to all other Y6 children in England. Unfortunately the league tables are fundamentally flawed

mrz · 09/05/2010 10:03

By oldandgreynow Sun 09-May-10 09:29:11
Teacher assessment seems like teachers assessing themselves.

Teacher assessment is externally moderated to ensure that the teacher is assessing correctly and that the standards in my school match the standards in all other schools around the country

Feenie · 09/05/2010 10:11

I'll tell you what I am afraid of, oldandgreynow. I'm afraid of a situation continuing where:

Schools are reluctant to accept children with difficult circumstances because it affects their results. We had a Y6 child frm Algeria who had been in the UK for 18 months. He has witnessed some horrific things, including seeing his father murdered. He was very disturbed, and had terrible emotional and behavioural problems. We took him in in Feb of Y6, where other schools wouldn't - a 4% drop in league tables straight away. We didn't care, and we did what we could for that child.

2)Schools are reluctant to accept SEN children on school action for the same reason. We have a very good reputation for SEN children and their progress where other schools won't bother - it affects their league table position, you see.

An external marker can be so appalling that on appeal over half the papers' marks are increased and this can make a difference of 20% in the final marks (but only if the Literacy co-ordinator knows exactly what she is doing and can be pulled out of class long enough to write 37 individual appeals (reading and writing). Had some of the appeals not been successful (and not all of them were), then Ofsted and the LEA would have swooped swiftly and we would have had to jump through a myraid of ridiculous hoops - all on one person's say so.
A child's achievement throughout the year is not recognised - but their performance in a 45 minute snapshot is all important.

5)Schools are so obsessed with league tables (because they are driven by the LEA and Ofsted, all desperate to improve their performance at any cost) that they totally deny Y6s their right to a broad and balanced curriculum and instead drill them with past paper after past paper for two terms, killing any love of literature or learning stone dead.

I have no idea why you think SATs are the only way to measure a school'd performance, oldand greynow, but I can tell you categorically that this particular method is at the cost of far too many children, most of them vulnerable ones.

oldandgreynow · 09/05/2010 10:32

'I thought the purpose of sats was to monitor how well the school are doing?'

Mrz wrote 'No the purpose of Ofsted and HMI and SIPs is to monitor how well schools are doing.

SATs are to see how children are doing compared to national expectations'

So why do the govt publish school league tables??

mrz · 09/05/2010 11:03

By oldandgreynow Sun 09-May-10 10:32:59

So why do the govt publish school league tables??

The government compile league tables because they say parents like them. Which judging by many posts on mumsnet is true.
Parents look at league tables and understandably pick the school that is high up the league tables for their child. When doing so they don't consider that the progress made by the children from reception to Y6 they just see the end result not the starting point.
It's like having a race up a mountain. Some runners start 100 meters behind the start line, some on the line and others start half way up the mountain. Most of the competitors manage to get to the top, some understandably take longer to get there. Who is going to win and who is going to trail behind? Not hard to predict is it?
League tables are misleading and unfortunately many parents are quite happy to pick the school getting to the top first although at the start that school was already half way up the mountain...

BigTillyMint · 09/05/2010 12:22

Plus they are distorted by external tutoring and some schools cheat.

Great patient posts mrz!

Pozzled · 09/05/2010 13:34

Thoroughly agree with both Feenie and mrz. Our school is boycotting SATs, doing past papers. I'm glad that someone is making a stand about it.

mrz · 09/05/2010 14:10

I'm not anti - testing (SATs or other types) but I am anti wasting a large part of Y6 preparing.

primarymum · 09/05/2010 16:03

Similar views to Feenie, I started Yr 6 with 9 children, I now have two more who " were unable to find a place in their local school" Both have severe emotional and educational problems, neither have been in school full time, one came to me in February after being "asked to leave" her previous school. Neither will make level 4. I was on target for around 70% level 4 but now will be lucky to achieve 55%. Does this mean the school ( or I) have suddenly become a poor performer? League tables are something of a lottery, especially in such a small school as ours where each child is roughly 10%

oldandgreynow · 09/05/2010 17:19

I thought they had to be in school acertain amount of time to count towards that school's SATS scores?
In any case SATS scores are not published for schools with less than 12 candidates.

Feenie · 09/05/2010 17:29

No - if they are there to sit the test, they contribute to your figures.

Feenie · 09/05/2010 17:39

It's 10 pupils or less, oldandgreynow. PrimaryMum's percentages will count in the league tables - what won't show is the care and compassion her school have shown those two children; whereas if they hadn't taken them in, she would only have 9 kids and the results wouldn't be published.

primarymum · 09/05/2010 17:50

But what else could we do, we don't turn children away who we feel we could help- as an aside, tomorrow on my way to work I will be picking them both up from home as otherwise they would miss our SATs breakfast club, both are brought to school by taxi as they live so far out of our catchment area and the taxi's won't bring them early! I will pass 5 other primary schools on my way, all of which were "full"

Feenie · 09/05/2010 17:55

Lol - we are still having our SATs breakfast club too! I reckon that's part of what made our Y6s decide they wanted to sit some tests; they couldn't bear to miss it!

primarymum · 09/05/2010 18:01

It's a tradition! Cereal, toast, crumpets, croissant and currant teacakes with bacon sarnies on Thursday! We have a sports coach coming in for half an hour for fun and games before hand and all eleven will be there! ( My yr 5's are very envious and can't wait for next year!

mrz · 09/05/2010 18:08

yet another reason why league tables are laughable those schools at the top of the table neverrarely get the low achieving, difficult children transferring in at the last minute (more likely they've transferred the child out) We had a child last term transferred in and mum took him abroad for the month prior to the tests so we only actually taught him for 3 days!

RollaCoasta · 09/05/2010 19:11

We have a transient population - each year only about 15% Y6 have been through the school from YR to Y6. Thus, CVA is meaningless as a measure of the school's performance.
Like primarymum, we also have to take in anyone who arrives. Y6 welcomed a boy last week who is working at level 2..... (and we are doing SATs).

primarymum · 09/05/2010 19:38

Rollacosta

3 of my 11 were with us through Reception, 1 and 2 ( I taught them then!) and the rest have joined since, two this year in yr 6, one last in yr 5, three in year 4 and the rest in year 3. Of the 8 that have joined since the end of KS1, one is statemented and 4 are on the special needs register!

Our turnover is pretty high every year. A couple of years ago we had just ONE child in yr 2, by the time he got to yr 6 there were 16 in the group!

RollaCoasta · 09/05/2010 22:30

Massive percentages per child primarymum!

I remember several years ago (when we reported KS1 SATs), a nearby 'small' beacon infant school offloaded their 12.5% L1 boy to me in the Christmas term!

Feenie · 10/05/2010 10:12

Yes, I had a Portugese child who couldn't speak a word of English start Y2 a week before Whitsun once! The rules about non-English speakers didn't apply in KS1, either.

AnnaSergeyevna · 10/05/2010 11:39

My poor Y6 baby is sitting them as I type this .
He seemed quite anxious about the tests this morning before school. It turned out that he's worried that if he doesn't do well, he will be in lower sets at his next school.
Is this what happens, or do secondary schools sue their own tests to determine the sets that the children go into?

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