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Attendence cetificates - am I wrong to be cross?

123 replies

Runoutofideas · 24/04/2010 18:00

I've just had dd (5) in floods of tears because she wasn't given a certificate on Friday. After questioning it turns out that these were for children who hadn't had a day off sick in the time from Sept to Easter. DD had 5 days off to have her adenoids out and gromments fitted, plus a week off for chicken pox - neither of which could have been avoided.

Am I wrong to think that praising attendence at this age is pointless, as the parents make the decisions and the child isn't choosing for themselves whether they are sick or not? It's made me a bit cross that she's now sad over something which she had no control over....grrr

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Fliight · 26/04/2010 18:20

Grand idea about keeping your child off for the assemblies

I thoroughly approve.

And it is, just like giving out a certificate for not wearing glasses or having non drink dependent parents.

onebadbaby · 26/04/2010 18:37

Oh, hear we go again

Feenie · 26/04/2010 18:55

Genuine question - certificates are a common strategy used to try to increase attendance, but are obviously unpopular with many parents.

We don't use them - but we have just finished a very successful Ofsted which saw us receive only one satisfactory, which was for attendance. Unsurprisingly, it's one of the two targets Ofsted have left us with.

So, what to do? We are sympathethic to illness, definitely don't want children coming in poorly, and are reluctant to go down the road of refusing to authorise holidays in termtime. But we definitely have some parents to take the mickey - days out for birthdays, new shoes, haircuts, etc. How can a school improve attendance without upsetting parents whose children are genuinely ill?

saggarmakersbottomknocker · 26/04/2010 18:58

I'm interested too Feenie - due Ofsted soon.

Elibean · 26/04/2010 19:00

dd's school has a 'cool cats' certificate for attendance, and a class competition (weekly, I think) for attendance percentages.

Its not taken overly seriously, and illness (reported, obviously) is not counted as absence, as far as I've noticed. But the kids do like the certificates, and the classroom doors have class 'certificates' on them weekly, too.

I suspect the way these things are handled is probably as important as the actual strategy, iykwim...

Your school sounds nice, Feeny

Elibean · 26/04/2010 19:00

Sorry, Feenie

Elibean · 26/04/2010 19:01

ps 'cool cats' as the message is something along the lines of 'its cool coming to school'.

mattellie · 26/04/2010 20:13

'I suspect the way these things are handled is probably as important as the actual strategy, iykwim...'

I do completely see what you mean, and I'm sure you're right. Perhaps it was just the way DD's school did it that was rubbish rather than the idea itself?

I do think there are a million and one things you can give young children certificates for, whether to do with effort, behaviour, attitude or whatever - why choose an area which children may have little or no control over and which has the potential to seem unfair to other children (not to mention their parents )? I don't think any child is going to have a problem with another child being rewarded for helping the teacher, say...

Takver · 26/04/2010 20:22

Do you have a very scary headteacher, Feenie? I have heard on the grapevine (though fortunately have not experienced it myself) that our headteacher summons delinquent parents to her office for a 'friendly chat' if they are taking days off as you describe.

Feenie · 26/04/2010 20:27

Thanks, Elibean - I like the idea of awards with illness not counting as an absence.

No, our headteacher is not very scary, which doesn't help with attendance, I guess. His friendly chat is apt to be genuinely friendly!

Fliight · 26/04/2010 20:28

Feenie, it's good that you are asking and also explaining how the situation looks from the other side.

the first thing that comes to mind, reading your post, is how much this is an Ofsted issue - and the second thing is how much it is a parental issue.

How is any of this in your control?

Well, basically, it's not, and the fact you are graded on attendance creates a bit of a fallacy, because really, it doesn't matter how good the school is - there will always be families and parents who don't think it's important to turn up.

You also need to separate the parents who care from those who don't, if you are going to try to tackle this issue.
Decent, compliant parents will get shirty and resentful if their kids are seen felt to be being penalised for unavoidable absence, when all the evidence points to their having tried their best to get those kids to school as much as possible.

The ones who don't care are unlikely to alter their lifestyle in order to ensure their kid gets a certificate. Pester power, which is fundamentally what this is, has its limits and could be counterproductive in this context.

right, so those are the things you should not do

I'm not certain what would work better. Give me a while and I might come up with something - but I hope this explains a bit more clearly why the present scheme isn't ideal.

enjoyit · 26/04/2010 20:42

How is this for mad...

My dd (aged 5) is so keen to get her end of year 100% attendance certificate, that she asked me to change her hospital appointment from 09:30 to a bit later so that I could drop her of at school, pick her up at 10:30 and have her back in class by the start of afternoon session so she did not get an absence mark!

Feenie · 26/04/2010 20:44

Indeed it does - it strikes us as quite unfair that the only thing we received a satisfactory for is the one thing that is really beyond our control!

Ofsted set two major targets when they leave, so it is a big deal and we have to address it.

Thanks for your comments, Flight, I agreed with everything you said.

Fliight · 26/04/2010 20:46

What happens if yuo don't manage to? Can they implement some type of sanction against the school?

Feenie · 26/04/2010 20:54

Schools have a SIP inspector who visits the school termly to check on progress. He reports to the governing body and the LEA, all of whom will expect the targets to be worked towards.

saggarmakersbottomknocker · 26/04/2010 21:00

It is a big issue with Ofsted yes. i think it can be what's called a 'limiting judgment' - that means that it affects the whole of your grading not just that particular section. And not just the % but how schools are addressing the issue, so we have to be seen to be challenging parents, offering support snd rewarding too. It's very much tied up with safeguarding these days.

But I do agree witha more individualised approach - it isn't good enough to be hassling caring parents; these are an easy target. Getting the disaffected ones to engage is much tougher.

Feenie · 26/04/2010 21:05

No, it's not a limiting judgement - we still got outstanding for 'Outcomes for individuals and groups of pupils', despite the '3' for attendance.

saggarmakersbottomknocker · 26/04/2010 21:38

It depends on the 'capacity to improve' I think Feenie.

Feenie · 26/04/2010 21:47

From where we are in attendance figures, there is definitely capacity to improve!

saggarmakersbottomknocker · 26/04/2010 21:54

Same here

cory · 27/04/2010 08:48

Seeker and Orm, I don't think most of us would object if it was simply a case of handing out one certificate amongst many. Can't speak for the OP, but most dcs are tough enough to cope with that. It's just that attendance is not usually treated in the same way as other achievements.

If the headteacher held a weekly assembly telling the children that only the children who have managed to learn their timetables care about their education and that it's only these children who are going to succeed in life- then I think you would get a few threads complaining about other things that attendance certificates!

How about a weekly assembly praising children who have managed to reach top set and suggesting that the rest are letting the school down? Surely only cosseted and over-indulged children would take any issue with that?

Feenie, I think it is great that you ask and I don't think anyone denies that attendance is a big problem.

Personally, I would have no problem with a school deciding that holidays are not allowed or only allowed under very special circumstanced at the discretion of the headteachers. Our schools have not allowed holidays for years, and I haven't got a problem with that. Holidays you have control over, with illness you do not.
(Though I do think exceptions should be made in cases of bereavement, such as dd's friend who got a holiday to be with her mum as there was no guarantee that her mum would still be alive when the next school holiday came around. Adults get compassionate leave from many workplaces)

Again, the occasional assembly on attendance will do no harm as long as it is managed tactfully. Simple things like if the head makes it clear in his speech that he is not speaking of children who are genuinely ill. That he understands that children can be ill just as teachers can.

Maybe even giving instructions to the teachers to have a quiet word with children with known health problems to reassure them that nobody is cross with them. Remember my ds- "will they be cross with me?"

And instructing teachers to find other ways to award children with real problems who are struggling to overcome them. More certificates or just a quiet word of praise.

It is very bad for your morale if you are made to feel that none of the things you can do are rated as much as the one thing you have no control over. Unless somebody remembers this, a child can end up going through an entire education without ever getting a sign that anyone has noticed how hard they try. (dd went through the whole of junior school)

An informal school policy would help.

And for the whole family, a few words at Parents Evening to show that you do notice other matters than attendance too can make a huge difference, which in its turn will impact on the child.

Dd has been ill since Yr 3. Though I knew from her reports that she was getting good grades and was always polite and pleasant, it was not until Yr 7 that we finally attended a Parents Meeting that mentioned anything other than problems with attendance. I was so overcome I nearly burst into tears.

Again, Education Welfare Officers have an important role to fill, but it would help if the school gave them clear information (with parental permission if necessary), so they knew when they turned up on your doorstep if your child's absence was due to a hospital stay or to nothing in particular. Otherwise, the misunderstandings can be quite shattering.

It's all in the balance.

Do what you have to do, but do it sympathetically and with an open mind, in the awareness that not all families are going to be the same, that not all children are the same.

Remember that just because Johnnie and Lauren and Kyle have been off on very flimsy pretexts, that doesn't mean that Kayleigh can't have a perfectly valid (and possibly quite serious) reason for her absences. She is not responsible for what dozens of other children in her school may or may not have done.

If the head develops health problems, would he really like to be judged by the appalling attendance record of the office next door?
"But we do know that there are major problems with attendance at UK workplaces; just look at these statistics!; you can't expect us to treat you any differently just because you had a heart attack."

Feenie · 27/04/2010 12:37

Thanks, Cory - I think all those comments are useful and fair. Thankfully, we definitely don't call in the Education Welfare Officer until someone really, really takes the mick, so I don't think we need to look at that aspect so much.

sanfairyann · 27/04/2010 21:05

cory I heart you .

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