Attendence cetificates - am I wrong to be cross?

[Runoutofideas]

I've just had dd (5) in floods of tears because she wasn't given a certificate on Friday. After questioning it turns out that these were for children who hadn't had a day off sick in the time from Sept to Easter. DD had 5 days off to have her adenoids out and gromments fitted, plus a week off for chicken pox - neither of which could have been avoided.

Am I wrong to think that praising attendence at this age is pointless, as the parents make the decisions and the child isn't choosing for themselves whether they are sick or not? It's made me a bit cross that she's now sad over something which she had no control over....grrr

I think it's madness.

Our school handles it all wrong imo. I have heard the teachers bigging up the whole attendance award thing, and if a class wins they get to have the Wii/DS all that week at lunchtime. So it's a let-down-your-classmate thing if you are ill. DD was off with an ear infection and was upset about the fact her class would now not win the award and would be upset with her. How wrong is this? I can appreciate that for some individuals it may be nice to be recognised, but it is not an award that really means anything, doesn't award any kind of effort or excellence. And only makes children off ill feel bad. Those off ill often feel even worse, because they may feel their class will never win because of them.

In fact, I am a governor and will be putting this on the agenda at the next meeting.

xstitch, dd's old headteacher was ex-Ofsted. We were in the process of preparing to sue the school under the Disability Discrimination Act when he retired. New head less unpleasant (ds who has the same condition attends same school).

New secondary school absolutely wonderful!!!

I wouldn't churlishly have minded other children's certificates if there had been a way of rewarding children who were trying hard to keep up despite adverse circumstances: dd never got any recognition for the fact that she was dragging herself to school and working hard when she was in severe pain; all they could do was grumble about the days when she was too bad to attend. Oh, and call in Social Services to check up on our parenting and lecture to us about the importance of education (SS to their credit refused).

I still wouldn't support it even if it was only for non authorised absence.

At the age of 5 it is never the child's fault. Who thinks up these stupid ideas anyway>=?

Oh our figures are 100% and 93%- no sickness, lots of appts for ds1's ASD and if ds2 gets a cert and not ds1 all Hell will break loose as ds1 does not Appreciate Such Things

The problem is Flight, as I beleive, a lot of parents dont instill a strong work ethic in to their children so its just another thing on a long list that schools are desparately trying to compensate for.

I have worked with a lot of people who call in sick at the drop of a hat. I have never done it because as a kid unless I had just vomited my lungs out on to the carpet I had to go to school!!

and that was good for whom, foureleven? I blooming hope you don't make your kids do the same.

Ah I misread that - apologies. I thought you said when you HAD just vommed. That wouldn't be good.

But even so - where do you draw the line with illness? Do you respect the 24/48 hour thing for D/V? (just out of curiosity)

of course I do!! Im not cruel heehee

They have to be pretty ill to not go to school. If they need to be in bed all day then they are ill enough to be off. If they are up and about just moping then they have to go in.

Stepdaughters mothe rwill keep her off school with 'a cold' they stay in bed for the moring then go off to the cinema or pizza hut to 'make themselves feel better'

It served me well when I was a kid, I am well respected at work for being hard working, loyal and dependable. And I have a really sucessful career

I quite literally can not stand a shirker!

I have children in my class whose parents take them out for the day for a haircut...

That's pretty silly but it still isn't the child's fault. How about giving the parents certificates? It would seem more appropriate.

I think I'd be more concerned about why your dd was in floods of tears just because other children got certificates, tbh.

eh? What does that have to do with the issue at hand?

Shaz10, I wish dd's school was as sensible as yours. I'm afraid they don't all work that way.

DD brought home a letter in Y1 because her attendance was low. She had two weeks off for tonsilectomy and adenoidectomy and also caught a few bugs (she catches things easily). In every case I had notified the school on the first day of absence (couldn't let them know about the operation in advance as we got a cancellation appointment at the end of the summer holidays. The letter said that in future I should keep her off 'only when she was too ill to attend school'. As opposed to...? Went in and saw the head, to explain that dd is only off when too ill to attend and the head said, 'I know, but we have to send out these letters.'

Stupid system! DD loves school, always hands her homework in on time, is described by her teachers as 'a joy to teach', etc. She's just had a week off due to a D&V virus (genuinely poorly for 6 days) so any more bugs this term and there will be another letter home.

Sorry to digress, OP! Yes, I agree with you: these certificates are stupid (and not just because dd never gets them - she once got one for 'most approved attendance' and that wound me up the wrong way too). Mostly dd gets certificates for 'helping to tidy up after wet play,' which is sweet and I think pretty much anyone could gain a certificate for something as mundane as that, so I don't think that a child's only chance of getting an award is through either a robust immune system or having the misfortune to be sent to school dosed up on calpol.

Because the OP is cross that her child is sad about it and therefore seems to believe the practice of issuing these certificats must be wrong. Had it been water off a duck's back to the child, would this issue even make the radar?

OP's DD may not have control over her attendance, but surely it must be valid to encourage a bit of control over how to deal with disappointment?

And, for the record, certificates and prizes for these things are not new. I still have mine, from way back in the 70s.

ther's been threads in sn about kids with complex issues that require hospital getting those letters too ruby: barmy ! Because of course what the family of an ill child needs is a bit of extra stress.

I think the certificates are an LEA led initiative and not much to do with schools. Yes we can all see the failings of the system, but I really do think kids will "get over' missing out- and in some schools they help to send the message to some parents that do take their children out of school for trivial matters. Most parents that are interested enough in their kids to even bother with mumsnet are going to be conscientious about their child's attendance. But out in the real world there are many parents that don't. I have taught in a school where absence excuses included - buying new school shoes, uniform not dry or washed, no bread for sandwiches, didn't get up in time, no-one to bring him to school, and various excuses obviously made up because they couldn't be bothered to make the effort...etc. Also many children take time off in term time for holidays- rightly or wrongly, but LEAs have to be seen to be acting on this.
I think if your child is so upset about missing out then you really need to be helping them to accept the fact that they can't 'win 'em all" and get over it. Focus on something they can achieve.

if you don't like the system, write to your LEA yearly about it. I do - if a few more of us joined in, it might start to sink in that yeah, it's all well and good to be happy some kids didn't get ill that year, but for those who have many medical appointments to keep, hospital procedures to endure, illnesses, it's another kick in the teeth frankly.

It's kinda hard to help them with this 'can't win em all' attitude when they've been in hospital, only to come back to school to get a letter about poor attendance (cheers - get well soon card would be nice) then for ds1 not only not to get blinking stupid award but also hassle from peers because in assembly they get told they're letting down the class if they're off sick. I would be happier if my LEA and school did something similar for their employees as a motivating tool

Well my DS1 who has not missed a day in almost 4 yrs at juniors is never sent in when ill.

He honestly has not been sick or had d&v at all in that time.

I'm with foureleven on this. I hate to see kids playign up to mum to get a day off sick (and it certainly does happen in infants).

I don't agree actually that health is solely down to luck.

aaaargh (that's the scream of a mum with a child with a medical condition). yes, health is, perhaps not solely, but often down to luck, or I suppose genes to be more accurate.

I've got one at school who gets letters home about attendance and another who is never off school because he's never sick. never. apart from chicken pox one time, hand foot mouth another. he's had raging ear infections that we didn't even know about cos he never complained. don't think he's ever had antibiotics. can't say it's got anything to do with me - he's just healthy as a horse which is great of course but no need for me to claim any credit. I'd rather have 2 fairly well kids than one fabulously healthy and the other who spent his early childhood in and out of hospital

This honestly doesn't bother me at all. My child in tears because somebody else got a certificate would bother me more I think.

Are you really saying that a five year old child shouldn't cry about something like this?

Would you like to come and explain to my nearly 7yo that it's not OK to cry about stuff? However irrational it might aseem to us - things, random things, slightly unfair things, do upset them at that age.

It can feel very real to them and much more powerful than it does to us; that doesn't mean there is something wrong with them.

how strange. Yes obviously a parent will try and make the child feel better and not be so affected by it but that's hardly the point.

It's a rubbish system is the point.

and try not to forget how tired 5yos get at school. We have had some very irrational tears in the past just because of extreme tiredness.

but if you can find a way to blame it all on the parent, then by all means...

"I still wouldn't support it even if it was only for non authorised absence.

At the age of 5 it is never the child's fault. Who thinks up these stupid ideas anyway>=? "

Ditto

About the "parents not teaching strong work ethic thing", I have several times sent my Dcs to school when they feel a bit off (no fiever though) and each and every time I have done so, the school called me in the next hour to come and pick them up. I do so and then the DC in question usually spends the day playing in the garden because there is absolutely nothing wrong with them.
Parents are damed if they do and damned if they don't. I sent my child to school because they are fit enough, school decides they are not fit enough where does my responsability as a parents come in?

Our school so far hasn't got attendence certficates and I totally agree with it (just changed HT so things might be different soon though)

"Yes we can all see the failings of the system, but I really do think kids will "get over' missing out"

That depends ime on how the whole handling out of certificates is dealt with. Dd, who is disabled and has severe pain issues, had to sit through a weekly assembly where the head talked about how only children with a high attendance record care about their education and how only those children are going to be able to succeed in their exams and cope with adult life. And then the children who had achieved 100% attendance were called up and praised and made much of. This went on for several years. There were no similar award ceremonies for any other achievement, so children with permanent health problems were left feeling that it doesn't matter what I do, I am a failure anyway.

When ds was diagnosed with the same painful and disabling condition, his first response was "will they be angry with me?", meaning the school. He had sat through enough of those assemblies to realise that if you are ill, you are not going to be persona grata with the school.