Open day - teachers' comments on books

[debs40]

Last day of term we had an open after noon in school.

This means that parents can go into classs and see their children's books and work.

I have had my concerns this year that the teachers my son (in Y2)has have little individual contact with the children and don't appear to know what level they are at and if they are improving etc. The groups they enter the year in are those they live the year in.

They never read with the children themselves but teachers here have reassured me that they will be assessing as the year goes through etc.

Two things happened at the open afternoon:

1. I looked at my son's books. All comments were written in the same pen, in the same handwriting. Unusual . On one page DS had tyo write a list of things he liked about himself. One point he had made was that he liked to kick his younger brother's butt. No, I wasn't pleased to see that. He doesn't talk like that at home. Worse still the work had been marked with some inane comment about capitals or some rubbish

1. I asked about DS's reading grade for his report. He had been given a 2c but reads really well despite being on much lower level books. I was told he has trouble with inferences (perhaps because he has been undergoing ASD assessment). I was about to leave it at that when the teacher said how she was going to assess him in a particular way for SATS but this meant he wouldn't be able to get a 3 although he is capable of that.

Right, now I'm thinking, what are these teachers talking about? There appears to be little in the way of continuous assessment, abdicate responsibility to SATS. Lots of the work was unfinished and friends noticed similar things too - half coloured in writing, pieces where the child had just about managed to write down the WALT and done nothing else.

Oh and unlined books so writing is all over the place.

Tell me this isn't normal practice and that there are better schools out there??

I tend to use the same variety of pen when marking. I have to use blue or black, and the stockroom is full of one variety of each.

She's probably going to use the individual reading assessment for his SATS, rather than the extended story with questions and a lot of writing he'd need for L3.

Attention to capitals and accurate punctuation is important to obtain level 2b+ in writing. Did he use a connective in his sentence? I like to kick my brother's butt because... If not, that could be his target for his next piece of writing.
The current insistence on writing down WALTS in detail is a PITA, and often the pace and vigour expected in a lesson and over a learning sequence means there is no time left over for a slower worker to finish the little details such as colouring in. That wasn't the WALT.

I dislike this way of working, although it's quite the fashion now and find writing in unlined books appropriate only occasionally.

Excuse me, but if your son writes that he likes to kick his little brother- isn't that your son's responsibility, and not the teacher's? Or do you suppose the teacher taught him he has to write that?

And why are her comments about capitals inane? Surely that is the kind of thing he needs to learn at this age. The school is there to teach him to write correctly, what he chooses to write is his responsibility.

Again, don't see what the problem is with using the same handwriting (meaning that the marking is done consistently by one person) or the same pen (standard issue).

Thanks Goblin, my point about the kicking butt, as you know, is that this had clearly not been read. It was a list of things he felt he was good at written in his 'SEAL' book so no.10 say was 'I am good at kicking my brother's butt'My impression was that prior to parents open day, the whole pile of books had been taken home and quickly gone through.

My point was also, how could a teacher assess at level 2c and then when asked for more explanation confirm he's capable of level 3. I have no confidence in the grading at all.

There are two teachers and yet only one appeared to do all the marking for a year's work in one handwriting with one pen in one colour. Mmm....

It wasn't just DS's books that contained lots of unfinshed work and having sat in open classes where the teahcer keeps them on the carpet for 40 mins before sending them back to their desks in a blur to do a task in ten minutes(including the WALT)

Cory, nothing to excuse yourself for at all.

I would not have DS to write these things at home and would expect him to have been told that was not appropriate. He is only 7 and rather vulnerable as he has SCD.

Anyway, as I have said my point was not what he had written but that this stuff had clearly not been marked. Given the substance of what he had written, the capital letters comment seems a little inane yes.....write what you like as long as it's properly spelt

Are you a teacher? Perhaps it is common practice to take all the books home once a year and blitz them quickly for open day but perhaps teachers don't think parents notice this.

I noticed it as DS' last school too.

I'm not sure why you think the teacher didn't read the 'butt-kicking' comment.I would have thought it showed humour in his writing.

I expect the colour is down to what the colour the teacher has to use and the pen comes from a box in teh stock cupboard with a hundred of the same pens.

If one of my class wrote he liked kicking his younger brother's butt I wouldn't give it recognition in writing as it has clearly been written to extract a response. I may comment verbally along the lines "I'm sure your parents will be interested to read that" ...

I always mark in green pen and buy a dozen at a time from WHS.

I think it's because of the sort of teachers they are. They are very straight and rather twee and not at all given to progressive attitudes towards displays of childish humour.

DS tells me he was told to rub out number 10 in the class after someone told him to write it then 'told on him' for doing it.

What he did was rub out the number 10 - there is the literal AS mind for you - but kept the sentence.

This was not picked up in 'marking' but that is not a massive issue in itself if it were not for my concern that these teachers generally have very little to do with the children's work - e.g. as I have said, they are never read with, a teacher cannot comment on his reading level with any accuracy and children never move between ability sets.

Are teachers here saying then that they mark as they go along and never just take a whole lot of books home for a bit of back-dated marking before parents' evening?

Really, be honest...

I have a marking pen (red fountain) that I always use and my handwriting tends to stay the same. If someone were to look at my books it may look as if it had all been done in an evening.

I used to date my marking so it was clear I had not done this, but I don't any more.

I mark in the lesson, give verbal feedback and try and keep literacy/maths up to date daily.
But of course, I take sets of books home to mark, and I have to do APP at home because I just can't concentrate in school, there's always someone flapping around.
But you could come in most days and my marking wouldn't be more than a week behind at the most, and that for the mega writing bits. Y 5/6 can really cover the pages if they're on a roll.
The child would have had feedback at the time.

Lockets....No, no one has a problem with anything in that class, everything is fine, everyone is doing really well, and coming along brilliantly blah blah blah. Then ask them why your child struggles with something basic and you get nothing back...

Sorry,I have had a long struggle with SEN issues all year with these teachers.

DS has DCD and writes pretty well but it is a struggle for him as it hurts. They have not wanted to ask for help, offer help, go along with suggestions until they have been absolutely forced to. Everything that is suggested for him is greeted with 'oh no mroe work for us'.

So, although each of the things I mention may not in and of themselves be huge, they are based on my lack of confidence. When you ask a teacher face to face about a child's reading ability and you cannot get a straight answer, you tend to wonder about everything else.

There are boys in that class way, way behind DS so god help them. Their parents worry to but none of them need any extra help either apparently .

Now the class TA has been moved and will be replaced by a new TA for the last term so that will really help all the children she has been workign with.

Sorry, I am unloading and perhaps the open afternoon was th elast straw.

It is only a little thing, but used lined paper, for god's sake, it makes a real difference and they know DS has been working on practising letter formation at home with this.

My infant aged dd has lined paper to put under books pages afaik. Laminated lines as far as I can remember. I sorted out her sister's writing by taking a lined book and getting her to do a holiday diary - a couple of lines a day, it is now beautiful. We enjoyed doing it together.

As far as marking a job lot of books - you just can't get away with that nowadays in teaching as there is so much checking of books and fwiw I always mark with the same pen.

I agree with Pixie - you just seem to be finding anything to criticise looking at your posts!

And lol at butt. were you REALLY offended by that? Par for the course wiht 7 year old boys

Thanks Pixie. You are right. I do have a bigger problem. Hand on heart I cannot for one minute believe that these teachers mark books every week and DS has said that they do not get feedback during the lesson.

No, I don't think that comments about capital letters are inane per se. It just seemed odd in this context. Plus DS does really struggle with capitals and punctuation. Typical Aspie, he knows all the rules but not necessarily how to apply them and is impulsive. But they have offered no insight in to how to develop that. I have had to do all of this myself. How is he ever going to know without help?

Do teachers really believe that just writing a comment about capital letters makes all children capable of writing them? It seems to me that they just assume children understand what a sentence is in the first place.

I have had to fight for months to get even a basic level of assistance with DS', his handwriting and other problems but even now I am not sure he gets it in class or whether the MDSA/TA working with him on this has a clue what the problem is.

His one support was the TA who has just finished Early Bird Plus training. But they've moved her now.

So, yes, there is an underlying problem but it is not just specific to my son.

This is an area with very 'supportive' (I didn't say pushy...) parents who help their children and an outstanding school and yet it seems that half the class haven't got to grips with the basics.

I either mark my books in school after the children have left or take them home and mark. I don't mark the night we have a staff meeting so mark two pieces the next night.

Please don't take the piss out of me.

No I wasn't offended by butt but I know these teachers and I don't think for one minute they have properly marked his work and this seems to be evidence of it

I have a very bright but disabled son who would have languished at the bottom of the class this year had I not battled with school to get him even basic support.

He can barely sit up straight all day and has been told that he needs breaks. The teachers response.... 'oh then everyone will want one'.

No, I am not looking for just anything to criticise but perhaps teachers need to be more honest about their knowledge of the children they teach. If it is limited, don't pretend to have all the answers. Teachers are not Gods but seem to have God complexes.

I have been lied to about provision, had IEPs changed and backdated but when I have asked questions I have been accused of causing them 'stress'.

My experience has been that they'd rather cover their own backsides and pretend a child's ok than take on extra work. They do the minimum and are out the door by 3.30

My friend's son has a rare syndrome and learning difficulties but he apparenty is 'doing great' too despite the fact he is falling ever further behind.

So don't laugh this isn't funny.

Thanks for the stereotyping of all teachers there.

I must remember to cut back my childminders hours as I seem to be out of the door by 3.30 and thankgod no more work at home...

I was simply trying to find out if all teachers were equally lazy and defensive. I wonder whether we would fare better elsewhere.

I wondered whether there were teachers out there who knew the children in their class, read with them, knew their weaknesses and strengths and worked to develop them as individuals.

I find it hard to know how a parents knows how much work a teacher does, to monitor what time they arrive and leave school!