Open day - teachers' comments on books

[debs40]

Last day of term we had an open after noon in school.

This means that parents can go into classs and see their children's books and work.

I have had my concerns this year that the teachers my son (in Y2)has have little individual contact with the children and don't appear to know what level they are at and if they are improving etc. The groups they enter the year in are those they live the year in.

They never read with the children themselves but teachers here have reassured me that they will be assessing as the year goes through etc.

Two things happened at the open afternoon:

1. I looked at my son's books. All comments were written in the same pen, in the same handwriting. Unusual . On one page DS had tyo write a list of things he liked about himself. One point he had made was that he liked to kick his younger brother's butt. No, I wasn't pleased to see that. He doesn't talk like that at home. Worse still the work had been marked with some inane comment about capitals or some rubbish

1. I asked about DS's reading grade for his report. He had been given a 2c but reads really well despite being on much lower level books. I was told he has trouble with inferences (perhaps because he has been undergoing ASD assessment). I was about to leave it at that when the teacher said how she was going to assess him in a particular way for SATS but this meant he wouldn't be able to get a 3 although he is capable of that.

Right, now I'm thinking, what are these teachers talking about? There appears to be little in the way of continuous assessment, abdicate responsibility to SATS. Lots of the work was unfinished and friends noticed similar things too - half coloured in writing, pieces where the child had just about managed to write down the WALT and done nothing else.

Oh and unlined books so writing is all over the place.

Tell me this isn't normal practice and that there are better schools out there??

You can ask your GP for a referral to the Ed Psych

Fireandlife...cross post but I would also say - have you any idea how hard it is to get a statement? Really, do you know how much battling is invoilved? I'm not having a go but teachers, and I have friends I include in this, often don't know anythign about the statementing process.

Schools tend to want to get statements for children who will cause disruption without one. My son does not. He is not not lagging behind academically so the LA will not want to know without a huge battle. The only person at risk of losing anything without more assistance is him.

And as for teachers knowing their children, I am wrong to make assumptions but you are too. My son barely spoke to anyone for three months but teachers said 'he's fine'. It was only after intervention began that he came out of himself and they admitted they hadn't really known him at all.

The reality is, he doesn't need a great deal.

of support. He just needs targetted help, e.g. preparation for change, some help with writing (e.g. using the tri-lined paper the OT suggested),sometimes he will need instructions repeated to him, or have strategies discussed for asking for help. He also needs a little more guidance on the daily timetable and changes etc. Also, some accomodations for sensory issues.

Without this, his life is stressful and so is ours.

I have said to school that I understand that thye have lots of demands but that I will apply for a statement if they can't meet these types of request but they don't want to engage in that discussion abour provision.

They are asking for Ed Psych now after the LA Inclusion Officer agreed with me.

I know, it's extremely difficult to get a statement. It's difficult for good reasons. From what you say at the end of your last post, your son clearly doesn't need one.

If your child needs to see an Ed Psych, needs regular breaks etc, etc then it is very strange that he isn't getting this attention. In my experience schools fall over themselves to make sure 'their backs are covered' if nothing else.

It all seems very strange indeed. Either you are being overprotective and worrying too much or you need to move schools. If this school is as bad as you imply it obviously has no concern for its own reputation or accountability!

Thanks. It is strange indeed as you say isn't it? That is what I am trying to get my head around.

But I comfort myself that I am supported by the community paediatrician, the SALT team, the occupational therapist and the Inclusion team at the LA so I feel, on balance, I am probably not just being an 'overprotective' mother. I do realise however that this phrase can sometimes be the default response for some teachers.

As for accountability, to whom? Seriously, I'm not being difficult. But to whom are schools accountable to on SEN? It seems the LA would not want to get involved. Their governors? Unlikely to intervene. So who monitors SA/SA+? Who ensures the provision is in place and effective?

Parents largely.

The reality is: statements are hard to get (rightly you say but they are often refused on blanket policy grounds to even very deserving cases) and anything else SA+ etc is only as reliable as the school/teachers that implement the provision or as effective as the budget will allow.

My worry is fire, that no, they are not bothered and that in an area of competitive schooling and the 11+ the last thing they need is to be forced to dole out help to a child who looks 'normal' even if he doesn't really engage with you.

SEN provision is closely monitored by OFSTED in schools and at LA level

But mrz, on a day tom day, week to week provision, in between Ofsted visits which occur once every three years, no one else does this.

I wasn't aware the LA had any right to ask questions of a school about the provision given to children who were without statements. I understand the SEN budget is not ringfenced and can be applied as schools see fit.

This pits school against parent and is unfair. I think politically the system is largely berated on that ground.

To others who have posted thanks for your responses.

To teachers I would ask you to ask yourself how much you know about conditions like ASD. Would you spot them, would you know how they affect a child educationally, would your SENCO, has your school undertaken training on the IDP etc etc? If you don't know or understand, do you ask for help? Do you listen?

I am not trying to be difficult but not all teachers do.

I have a boy in my class currently with Aspergers who has very similar probems to those you have mentioned, trouble with fine and gross motor skills meaning writing is difficult, difficulty coping with change, sensory problems, emotional and behavioural problems. I have Ed Psych, EBSS, BSS, CAHMS and everyone else I can think of involved but he still won't get a statement or any additional TA support because he copes. He might not cope well, and life would be easier for him with some support, but the situation is that he does not meet the criteria and neither I suspect would your son. This means that the I have to do as much as I can to meet his needs whilst dealing with the other children in my class ( one girl partially blind who does have a statement and so gets 5 hours a week support with reading, one with ADHD, 4 more on SA+, one with EAL and 15 others, all of whom need help, support and attention ( and I have an easy class!) There are VERY few teachers who are deliberatly neglectful or unconcerned, there are teachers with little if any support who in most cases do the best they can. If your school doesn't ( and please don't lump us all in together) then you need to find one that does..

Thanks primarymum, I will try not to.JMust feeling raw.

I think communication is key. If school said to me what you are saying, e.g. without a statement we can only do x,y and z etc. I'd know what I was dealing with. Instead, we lurch from one trial to another and things are put in place which don't materialise and then people get defensive and I am sorry but they do try to cover up.

I have been lied to but that is not the end of the world.

Better communication is the key. It really is.

Different LAs have different funding arrangements so there is no definitive answer but all schools must provide the LA with details of children on the SEN register SA SA+ and Statemented.
The LA audit the provision annually

Accountable to parents, yes. Also to thier children, the LEA and OFSTED. You mentioned you have some legal expertise so you probably know more than I do but I think there is a legal obligation to ensure that every child has access to education that meets their needs. Certainly children with special needs.

I think statements are funded by the LEA. Schools receive funding after the statement has been awarded. If the funding isn't directed towards the child in question then you'd probably have a very good case!

I'm afraid OFSTED are responsible for ensuring the provision is in place.

It sounds as if you think the teachers in the school are incompetent and being very difficult.

Most teachers care deeply about the children in their schools. Many of us could have chosen a million and one more lucrative careers but teach because we want to make a difference. If your DS has ended up in a place where no one cares, move him, move him, move him. If the present school is failing your son, you need to make other plans.

Statements are only partly funded by the LA the school must find the additional costs

Thanks!

I meant thanks Mrz for correct info!

Hear hear, fireandlife.

It might help if I didn't keep reading things addressed to all teachers, debs, as if we're all to blame for the shortcomings of your ds's school.

Speak as you find, by all means and, as you have found your ds's school to blame, blame them by all means. But it winds me up to be told to find out what ASD means... most teachers (imho of course) not only have to know what ASD is, but ADHD, SA, SA+, EAL, LAC, G&T, EBD, whose step-dad is not allowed any access at all, who has an eating disorder, who has a nut allergy, whose grandparent has just died, and so on and so on, in most classes that they teach.

We do our best. Clearly, sometimes it's not good enough and I do sympathise. But I try very very hard to make sure each and every child I teach is catered for, socially, and academically.

It's hard.

Do what fireandlife suggests. Move him.

In my county ALL SEN funding has been allocated to schools, we are given the same amount regardless of the number of children we have at any level of need. This is a new procedure and has only been in place since 1 April. We have been assured that schools will not lose out on funding ( at the same time as saying the primary SEN budget was over spent by 150% last year and the secondary by 200%!) What this means in practise we don't yet know-and neither it seems does anyone else!

It means I will have more sleepless nights wondering how I can support all the children from my SEN budget!
At the moment we still get additional funding for statements but nowhere near the true cost to the school.

Are you in the same county( tulips) or is this becoming a nationwide practice? We have a little more funding this year than last, but the number of children with additional needs we are asked to cater for is increasing year on year, and the "no loss" guarantee is only valid for this year!

Yes oneofsuesylves..... it is very irritating to hear all teachers criticised in this way. It gives parents a bad name!

The thinly veiled, passive agressive comments are almost more annoying. I'm sure Debs is just venting her spleen! I do sympathise with what appears to be an unsatisfactory situation. If I had a friend who felt this strongly I'd be inclined to suggest Home Ed if another school couldn't be found. Have you considered it Debs? I know lots of parents whose children have special needs have found this a very rewarding experience.

fireandlife Mon 05-Apr-10 16:29:49
"I know, it's extremely difficult to get a statement. It's difficult for good reasons. From what you say at the end of your last post, your son clearly doesn't need one.

If your child needs to see an Ed Psych, needs regular breaks etc, etc then it is very strange that he isn't getting this attention. In my experience schools fall over themselves to make sure 'their backs are covered' if nothing else."

In my experience, not all schools fall over themselves to ensure that children with SN get help. Our experience of having a wheelchair bound dd in junior school includes the following:

dd having to crawl on hands and knees to access toilet as wheelchair wouldn't fit through door and head refused to unlock disabled toilet as he wanted to keep that clean for visitors (head gave me this reason himself during telephone conversation)

dd being left in classroom on her own with no maths tuition during every maths lesson for a term as school did not want to change the sets round so her set was taught on the bottom floor and the teacher just left her without questioning this or thinking about letting her move sets- when challenged, teacher explained that dd was "refusing to walk upstairs" (well, yeah, it is difficult when you are in a wheelchair)

Our ds (also disabled) is now at the same school, and we have waited nearly a year to have the recommendations of the Occupational Therapist implemented; I have tried since January to get a meeting with the SENCO. Our appointment letter for the parents evening was lost by the school office. The teacher seems sympathetic but keeps assuring us that ds can only have aids (sloping desk, straight backed chair, laptop) if we go out and buy them and pay for them and that there is no point in us trying to get a statement as ds has a physical disability rather than learning difficulties. Fortunately we can afford to pay for the things he needs- but what if we couldn't?

During planning meetings, the question most frequently asked was "how can we know that corydd doesn't just fake being in pain?" (this after a full diagnosis had been provided, together with printouts explaining dd's condition, and a visit from the paediatrician).

I would never think of blaming all teachers, or all schools, for the treatment our dcs have received. But my experience, sadly, has not been that all schools fall over themselves to help children with special needs.

I agree with you cory, and it makes me very cross that my son's MS secondary, with over 1,500 pupils do a fantastic job with managing sn, yet other schools don't.
If one school can manage, then all schools should be able to offer the same positive, proactive response to an individual's needs.
My son doesn't need a lot of adjustments, but what he does need is essential for him to access the curriculum and to function in an NT environment. His school have bent over backwards for him, and when I've gone in and pointed out things that weren't happening that should be, they've listened and acted.

Debs I really feel for you. Our experience with our school's treatment of my dc with SEN has been pretty awful. The lack of empathy, the suspicion that my dc was just being annoying...it's not that unusual - well according to our SALT anyway, who regularly encounters problems with schools.

The teachers on these boards always seem amazing, committed, passionate, caring etc I just haven't seen the same qualities coming from my dc's teachers.

Saying that, I think you need to decide how you are going to cope with this going forward. You can't spend the next 4 years, in a high state of stress, distrusting everything the school does, you're health will suffer.

You need a plan, you need to think about what is really important. Maybe you could think about, given your dc is settled and happy with friends and that is more important than getting a level 3 (you could do stuff at home to boast his learning if you feel it's needed) or you need to move schools or home educate.

But thinking you can change the culture of this school overnight is asking the impossible.

I've introduced the Amazing 5 point scale into school www.specialdirect.com/Content/Files/images/SD10122.jpg and children can say to a teacher I'm at 4 indicating they need a break which might mean taking a note to the office or to a LSA and having a few minutes to bring stress levels down.
It can be done with colours or numbers

Cory - all the more reason for this person to remove her child from a clearly useless school!

The problem is, before you remove your child you need to know there is somewhere better where you can get them in. That's what's keeping us in the same school- the choice is limited and the logistics would be difficult.

I agree that if there is a good school you can get your child into, OP, it may be well to cut your losses.

We have limited choice- so we're staying to fight!