disciplinary warning letters in primary school

[theweasel]

My son Year 1 is being bombarded almost daily with warning letters to bring home. They inform me that he has done time out or been sent to a foster classroom for unacceptable behaviour such as talking, calling out answers, not sitting still for long learning periods. The school insists that parents sign the letters and return them within 48hrs to confirm that we have spoken to the child about their unacceptable behaviour. It feels like an extended punishment for my child and harrassment for me the parent. Its a newly implemented system at our school and is creating an ethos of fear and pressure among children and parents alike. These offence letters are also creating an official paperwork backed reputation for my son as a naughty boy. Actually he's very bright and bored. Are these letters common proceedure? Has anyone received torrents of letters and been successful in forcing the school to recognise the damage they cause?

I think it depends on what the problems are Quattro. I don't think moving a child to another school is always the answer as problems move with them if they are not tackled but a child can be labelled as the 'naughty one' and nothing they can do at that school can ever change this. There are certain things that are acceptable and things that are not. I don't think every child finds learning the rules of school easy, the one that shouts out needs help with self restraint rather then a telling off as this achieves nothing. I don't think teacher look what's behind behaviour, they just see the behaviour and this doesn't do anything to help the child tackle them IYSWIM.

weasel They do sound really tedious but do they give you an idea of what he's doing that's causing the most problems for him? Is it shouting out? I've found it's easier to tackle one behaviour at a time. Have you tried to teach him techniques to help him not to do this? (counting to 10 in his head when he feels the urge to shout to give him time to put his hand up for example?)

Couldn't agree more and think its very much a boy thing. The 'naughty ones' are always boys. In my daughters Yr 4 class. 25% have behaviour charts.They're all boys!

Talk to him constantly about his behaviour. I will try the one at a time technique and counting to ten. Right now, he just feels that nothing he does is right and that the staff don't like him. That kind of over shadows everything because he just doesn't feel secure at school. Temporary exclusion aint gonna help with that one.

Ds is going to an all boys secondary school, I think they do have different needs to girls, they need to go outside and run around and they need staff that know that their needs are very different.

Is he an only child? I think it's harder for an only child at school as they are use to having the sole attention of their parent/s so it can be a difficult adjustment when they start school and they have to share the adult with 24 other children. They are so anxious to say something which is where the interupting and shouting out comes from, they don't have to put their hand up at home. What's he like when you have a friend for coffee? Does he join in your conversation?

is weaslet in ds,s school all sounds very familiar. answer this. how the hell is parent supposed to to deal with something the school cant deal with. ie its a school management problem if youre not there. otherwise you may as well say to a child I cant deal with you, wait till your father gets home. thereby reiterating your own inability to discipline and pass the buck to an absent party whos unaware of all the facts. If you want weaslet to stay there I,d be temmpted to tell them to get off your back and look at their management strategies. Otherwise find a place where they focus on engaging with the children and he can make a fresh start.

Try telling him that the staff do like him but it makes their jobs harder when he shouts out/interrupts as it makes it hard for them to concentrate and teach the rest of the children. Tell him what lovely qualities he has (caring/thoughtful/funny etc) and that they are trying to help him so that he doesn't get into trouble in his next class. I'd use the angle of teachers are there to guide him rather then tell him off all the time, they are there to help him aswell as to teach, just like mum.

Boys don't have to be naughty. It's not compulsory,

Mummiedearest. Banging head against brick wall by telling them he's fine at home, you deal with him at school and HE REALLY IS FINE OUTSIDE OF SCHOOL. I think fresh start is the answer and I think school will be glad to see the back of him because he costs them so much in additional help fees.
FluffyBun he is the second child, theatrical and confident, able to keep with adult conversation. Strong sense of justice or fair play. Can't be fobbed off, very perceptive and sensitive.

oops, tired hence lots of typo errors. Boys have balls and are driven in different ways. However, all children thrive on praise which i genuinely believe is given more freely to girls at our school than it is to boys. 255 of the boys n my daughters class are on behaviour charts. None of the girls are. My mum is a retired primary head teacher and says that boys have different needs from girls...they are naturally more physical at a young age and develope a knowledge of consequence later than boys do...she held her post for 35 years.

sorry, meant to say 25% of boys in my daughters class are on behaviour charts

But does he join in when you are talking to someone?

He sounds like my son if I'm being honest so I do understand but it does them no favours if they can't control themselves at school. My son doesn't see himself as a child, he wants to be respected by an adult as he see's himself as an equal to them. He's hard work, I have tried all sorts, what works best for him is for me to teach him that adults are there to support and guide him, he should follow what he's told because they are trying to stop him from making the same mistakes as they have made. The book did help him with regards to behaviour at school, then they had a new head that took an instant dislike to him so I moved him and we went back to square 1 with the shouting out as the rest of his new class were doing this. He's hoping for a game for his birthday so has made a deal in order to get the game which is working. No class is going to like a child that shouts out though, it disturbs them and stops them from working. The earlier you help him to stop this the better. Can you make up a fictional child from when you were at school and chat to him about this child? How he used to shout out and what people thought of him, then he stopped and people started to like him for who he was type thing?

I agree with your mum, boys are so very different. Even empathy wise, boys take alot longer to show this then girls, boys are alot more physical, they need to run around. They need to feel useful aswell so jobs in class are a really good idea.

I would move him, he could do with a fresh start but he needs help with the problems he's been having to make sure they don't follow him around.

He can hold his own in adult conversation and yes he does join in. He respects those who respect him. He would draw a parallel between himself and fictional child and just ask me 'do you mean me?'.He's very perceptive.School missed his abilities last year in reception because led by a newly qualified teacher who couldn't see the obvious disruption. Assessment flagged up his high intelligence. School now recognise this but have marked his card as 'really bright but disruptive'.

On the case with moving him but would love to top the damage potentially done to others by the flow of the offence letters.

Thank you for your concern and input. Knackered, cheesed off, going to bed.

You have my sympathies. I have a child who is really bright with issues. School say one thing do another. Whilst in my case it is not doing any damage, I am afraid that were the situation as you described where is appears to be severily increasing the problem and having a negative effect I would remove him. The problem with this sort of psychological issues - confidence and self believe etc is that it takes a very short amount of time to do a very large and long lasting amount of damage. We were still unpicking the damage done by a nursery we removed ds from 2 years ago. he was only there 4 months. Go with your gut feeling. If the incidents are being recorded for the benefit of the governers and this form of notification are actually doing more harm then good I would contact the goveners as the head is not helpful. I would send a letter with something stating that whilst you agree that it is important for you to be notified of the exact nature of the events, you want this to occur in a different form because they are doing more damage and are activity counteracting the provisions laid out in his IEP and the Ed Psyc report. And in your eyes therefore failing him under the inclusion policy. Be very clear that you are not condolning the behaviour but that you feel the situation can be improved by this simple step.
However, if you don't think this action would stop the cycle of behaviour - get him out. Sorry but it is my advice. Hope you can resolve this to the benefit of your son.

I see. I really have been here, have done exactly the same as you and have had the same results which have been a problem for ds at school so this is how I see things at the moment for you. Sorry.

He should not be joining into your adult conversations, these are not for him, allow him to listen but train him not to speak as this is what he needs to do at schoool. He needs to learn not to interrupt, he may know what you are discussing and will have opinions but it's not the right thing for him to do as it's giving him the signal that it's OK to interupt and join in a discussion when it's not, he needs to learn to wait his turn, this is how things are at school.
You need to teach him when it's OK to join in a discussion, he's so use to doing this that he is unable to judge for himself so it's causing him problems as he's doing it all the time at school.
He needs to learn the hierarchy of school. Children listen when the teacher talks, they put up their hand when they want to speak, school works alot differently then home and this is the rules that we have to follow there.
I prefer anarchy to be honest, some rules are there to make everyone act the same and conform as it makes the people who are in charge life's easier. It's mind numbing but it has to be done, like paying tax. Ultimately though, it's the anarchist who will suffer. He'll be the one who's put outside the classroom or sent home for a couple of days so it's in his best interests to follow them.

Try the book.

and get the ed psych to amend the iep targets to reflect letter strategy.

what are his iep targets incidentally?

are they 'smart'? if so, the school have to have discussed with you how they are going to help him to reach them - are they actively helping him to reach them?

if his iep is well written, you can use that document to point out what they should be doing. if it isn't, ask them to rewrite in accordance with 'smart'.

and call the area inco. if he's got an iep and has been externally assessed (and, to be frank, excluded), he should be on the sa+ list and she/ he is probably aware and has seen him. call her/ him and explain that you seem to be getting nowhere - of course you and the school both have ds's best interests at heart (lying through your teeth is necessary at this point, although tbh they probably think they are acting in his best interests) but that somewhere the issues are not being resolved. ask her to attend the meeting with you, the senco, class teacher and ht at school (and ed psych if you can persuade...). does he have social targets?

has he got two ieps running? one for his giftedness and one for his sn?(with behaviour targets and social targets? or are they esteem targets?)

this can be sorted out you know.

but ultimately i think you are in denial about the amount of disruption he's causing. there are no end of kids whose parents can't get them assessed for love nor money. a child who has been assessed, been given additional support, and still managed to get excluded is actually a child in need of more support, or support of a different kind. so get on the phone and move it up a notch. i'm not trying to be mean - and i know schools aren't perfect, but i have never heard of a school taking so much unnecessary action over one child. there just isn't the money in the system for it.

have you spoken to the sn governor? or the chair of govs? they will be aware anyway because of exclusion - i'd be on the phone to them as well.

and it may be that (after all) you do need to start getting other parents to go in and complain, and demand that more support is offered to your child so that the education of their children is not disrupted any longer. (their words lol, not mine.) you have to get them on side pretty fast now, or they'll just be demanding permanent exclusion...

Thankyou for your useful comments.FluffyBun I misunderstood the point of your question...he doesn't take part in adult discussions unless spoken to. I thought you were asking if he can speak well in the company of adults. Madwoman thankyou for info and advice.I'm aware of the disruption and am supporting the school in their actions to deal with it.Haven't spoken to govs.Long way down the road with IEPs,behaviour charts at school.Achieving IEP targets-sitting still on carpet,putting hand up to answer,not calling out.Often suceeds,but often fails and is punished;hence another letter home.The letters do my head in, cause worry for my daughter and are a lasting negative for my son.The focus is on the bad and not the good.Newly qualified teacher taking strategies onboard and trying hard.DidEinsteinsmum He had a bad time in nursery and I regret not withdrawing him.Nursery teacher widely disliked by mums. She discussed her dislike of teaching boys. Assessed with low self esteem in nursery. Teacher told by ed psych to stop shouting at him. We all thought that was the end of it but it got worse.